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Author Topic: Sliding X  (Read 311 times)

Bryan

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2002, 11:24:28 AM »

I really enjoy using the sliding knot(sliding X) on multi-stage rappells.  It makes for a quick, solid anchor.  Shaves a lot of time building more complex anchors on rappell.  
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poochie

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2002, 03:34:37 PM »

 I see youve got a dead horse there, may I?

a good use for this x thing, which passes most anchor requirements, is as a directional. You've reached a 2 bolt anchor, tied off with the rope, cordelette,whatever; then install the x thing to toprope up your second. It's only benefit is that it's self eq., so you won't load a single bolt ( and 1/2 of your entire anchor).
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JBeta

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2003, 09:57:42 AM »

I think the Sliding X should not be villified as the "Death X".  When a route wanders, and strange forces are subjected to your lead anchor, the sliding x is indespensible. Because of the single sling issue, though, the two equalized pieces should be considered one piece.

As a belay anchor, the sliding x works well if you have to move around on the ledge, though it often instills in me a certain unease because of the lack of redundancy with the single sling. The intrepid climber uses the sliding x, the cordallette, the rope, etc to equalize pro as each situation warrants. Yes the sliding x, like many other systems, is applicable to some situations and not to others.
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slim jim

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2003, 01:31:25 PM »



in the case of one piece of a sliding x failing, i think you are forgetting that the falling climber is still attached to a dynamic rope...a few foot extension is just the same as a few foot fall...its not going to break anything.

now, if you are at an anchor, tied in to the x and one piece fails, then a 3 or 4 foot extension might do some breaking of things because there is no dynamic section in between the load and the extension...

just my two cents...
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Anonymous

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2003, 12:19:31 PM »

I have had great chats with Chris on this subject and he refuses to change his view or at least up date his beta to include tying one or two extension knots into the system to limit the forces in case a single piece fail's. He also will not even include the why's and what-for's of what an extension knot is for this system. If he was really for safe climbing, he would try to explain what extension knot's are, even if he didn't beleive they work and would include that also into the beta.  He also say's he get's many request's on this subject to change the beta but for some reason he is real stubborn. His only response is, it's the death X and only unskilled climbers use it. He even admits that many professional climbers and guide's using the sliding X are wrong and unsafe.

The sliding X is still the only completely self equalizing system for when the situation warrants. There are several ways to build it but thats another topic for another day. If you have the time, go to the stone and build any anchor system you prefer, then sway to one side or the other like dodging falling rocks, ice, gear which can happen when your lead falls or even your falling partner is leading and pulls rock and ice off while your are alpine climbing, and things fall from the route during alpine routes or you need to eat while belaying on long routes. Of course food and such can be inside the belay parka. You will be loading only a single arm of any system out there during these happenings. So, the famed cordelette, rope knots or multi slings are not equalized, only a single arm/peice is. In fact, this very thing happend to me and pulled/loosened the screw on the single arm before the force's of lead falling pulled me back center to weight the other 2 arms on my cordelette. Did the whole system fail? No, but this got me really thinking to why and where I use what anchor system and what is actually SRENE for things other than sunny warm rock climbing on fixed anchor's w/ bolts.

I am not saying one way is better than any other but I am saying have a quiver of skills and know / understand when, why and where it is best to apply each one of them correctly and safely.


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Dave

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Re: Sliding X
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2003, 09:13:40 AM »

To blanketly call the 'sliding X' a death knot is pretty rediculous, as it certainly does have uses. So much depends on the purpose of the anchor and the terrain.
The main purpose of a multi-pitch belay anchor is to protect from a factor 2 fall. In this instance, full redundancy should exist in all parts of the anchor, and it should be pre-equalized, no sliding x here as the force on the anchor will always be straight down. (redundancy should always exist in any part of the system that is 'whole party dependant'. Someone mentioned the rope is not redundant, neither is your locking anchor carabiner. should either one of those fail, only one climber is gone, not the whole party, should your single sliding x sling fail, the whole party is history.
So use a cordelette or double length runner with a knot or a rabbit runner with a knot for most anchors and you're set.
As for shock loading enough to break the sling or biner, it can happen, especially if compounding the situation with other mistakes such as tying in with a static link such as a daisy chain or runner instead of the rope, and/or alowing slack in the system to further shock load things. According to Petzl, a drop of around 7 feet on static cord can result in forces greater than factor 3, which can and will break biners, webbing and harness'.

For rappelling anchors or end of climb anchors, it would be impossible to load any part of the anchor enough to break anything, providing the bolts and/or gear is good, sliding knot here, sure, and for equalizing crappy gear placements. (I guess most of us, I hope, rely on being able to work out tricky gear placements and not rely on  screamers)
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