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Author Topic: Euro death knot in winter  (Read 231 times)

Brian

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2002, 08:16:20 AM »

The testing data from xmission notes "All pulls are on a single strand of rope"   In most cases you are rappelling on two strands of the same diameter dynamic rope so the pull force on a single strand is minimal.  With two different rope sizes there is more force as the ropes pass through your rappel device at different rates.  Still I would be hard pressed to believe you are even generating 500 lbs of force on a single strand.  If you are not rappelling from a tree or new bolts you should be worried more about your anchor than the knot.  

Rappelling is dangerous for a lot of reasons: Getting the rope stuck, the anchor failing, not being able to find the next anchor, getting hit by falling rocks or ice, rapping off the end of the rope, not getting down before darkness or weather moves in.   These are all things I would worry about more than the knot pulling.
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slobmonster

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2002, 01:27:59 PM »

the in-line overhand is a fine knot to join 2 ropes, and like any knot you just need to tie it right.  big tails --18 inches-- and make the knot itself clean.  pulling tight each of the 4 strands coming out of the knot is key.  

if you're ropes are truly frozen, and behaving more like cables, then think about using a different knot.
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dkdanger

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2002, 12:04:40 PM »

 I have to wonder ;why bother? Though the euro death knot obviously sounds cooler to the guy next to you at the bar, why not use the best knot for the situation? doesn't the edk untie harder? doesn't it slip (without thirty foot tails) ? I once heard that J Bridwell only uses 4 knots for any and all situations. I've never read anything endorsing this knot for joining ropes, so why don't we seek to reduce the anectdotal (and possibly wrong) advice about life and death issues. If you really just want to spice things up though, go for the granny/ dulfersitz all the way.  
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dogboy

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2002, 06:54:01 PM »

Actually, the in-line overhand knot is easier to tie and untie than any of the other methods of joining two rappel ropes...and it pulls much more easily than a figure eight or fisherman's knot.  And the evidence that it is safe is not merely anectdotal.  In his 2002 book "Knots for Climbers" Craig Luebben, an AMGA certified guide, lists the knot among those used to join rappel ropes.  His exact words are: "The overhand knot is sufficient for body-weight applications like rappeling, but should never be used where higher forces are possible."  Plus, the testing data cited earlier in this post makes it clear that, under normal rappeling, it is almost impossible that sufficient force could be generated to make the knot roll even once.
The reasons to use the overhand knot are: easier to tie and untie, and much less likely to hang up when being pulled.  Anyone who has had to jug up a stuck rope will especially appreciate the value of the last adavntage!
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climbamt

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2002, 10:16:44 PM »

We have used the EDK for years summer and winter.  the 2 keys to using it safely are: long tails and set the knot... I was a bit skeptical at first but it works and well. ;D
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dogboy

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;DRe: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2002, 06:28:22 AM »

Thanks for the info, Mark!  Good job on Repentance, too.  Next time your up in this neck of the woods, give us a call if you have some time to get a beer or something... ;D
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dogboy

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2003, 01:27:44 PM »

Just wanted to post an update...I emailed the AMGA and asked them what their official position was on the in-line overhand.  The replied that they do teach the overhand as a method of joining rappel ropes of similar diameter.  They also teach that the tails should be at least 10" long, and that an overhand backup knot should be tied in one of the strands behind the main knot to keep it from rolling....
Nice to have an "official" opinion....
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smack #2

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Re: Euro death knot in winter
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2003, 10:21:55 AM »

Dude, let it go!
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