Author Topic: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse  (Read 5363 times)

poggiemon

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2005, 12:31:43 PM »
show me your helmet and I wiil show you your brain ::)

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2005, 01:31:14 PM »
Interesting perspective there on the paul pritchard accident. seems that i recal reading a comprehensive article about the paul pritchard incident where the lack of a helmet was directly responsible for the severity of the injurys. In their desperate attempt to  justify beeing cool normaly inteligent Cycle riders and climbers will often claim that helmets are dangerous. Total hoggwash ::) When i had my motorcycle accident one of the ER doctors flat out told me that i was lucky to be in VT  His exact words were " when i worked in NH we just rolled all the motorcycle  victims right downstairs into the cooler"

DWarriner

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2005, 02:06:26 PM »
I forget the statistic, but some ridiculously high proportion of motor cycle accidents (like 90%) happen within the first 3000 miles of riding.  I remember this vividly, because in college I was so happy when I got to 3000 miles on my bike.  I dumped it at 3007 miles.  Totalled the bike, but I was walked away with only skin damage.

I was told that people ride without helmets are refered by doctors to as organ donors.  They almost always die of a head injury leaving the valuable organs totally intact.  They are also frequently young and otherwise in good health - not like 60 or 70 year old organs from suckers that die of natural causes.

-David

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2005, 03:16:39 PM »
'course I feel the same way 'bout seatbelts. there have been 2 fatal accidents in the past 4 days in this area where the drivers were ejected from the car & killed. had they been wearing belts they would very likely be alive right now.

I installed belts into my dad's Corvair in about '65 and got into the habit of buckling up. it's such a habit that I feel naked when I'm in the car and don't have it on. I feel the same way with a climbing helmet and I've started to feel the same about the bicycle. I like to play the odds and they feel so much more stacked in my favor with a seatbelt & helmet. why you wouldn't want to take those small but significant safegards is beyond me.

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Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2005, 03:30:56 PM »
Bact to the broken locking biner. If the biner was photographed in the exact configuratin as when it was recovered then it appears to have been UNLOCKED at the time of failure. the screw gate looks to be screwed all the way open in the photograph?

drown

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2005, 03:33:34 PM »
[quote
I was told that people ride without helmets are refered by doctors to as organ donors.  [/quote]


I've been told this by my cardiologist neighbor, not that she though much differently of rock climbers.

Offline dogboy

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2005, 05:25:07 PM »
We all take risks...I ride a motorcycle (several, actually), rock climb, ice climb, and ride a road bike...

Sssshhh...don't tell my insurance company!
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2005, 06:21:50 PM »
What about that biner?

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2005, 06:51:42 PM »
re: the biner...

I agree that it is most definitely open now. that does not mean that it was at the time of the accident. the picture was taken 1 or 2 days after the accident, by another party. I sent an email to the woman leader asking several questions, including that one, and have not received a response yet. it is my understanding that she is away right now. when I hear something I will post it here.

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climbhigh

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2005, 03:32:57 PM »
I am one of those no brainers who do not wear a helmut rock climbing or on my Harley. Seat belts??? When I was a child we did'nt even wear them, no laws back then. Many folks who dress like the Knights of the Round Table in their armour while riding have tried to persuade me to dawn the helmut. I have many excuses... The seat belt is simply not comfortable. It also gives me a false sense of security. Without a belt I do tend to drive more cautiously. Helmuts climbing are very restrictive for me, also very hot on a summer day. I will say that my kids wear their seat belts and my daughter always wears her helmut climbing. I do wear one climbing ice tho. I am thankful that we live in a free society where individuals have the freedom to make their own choices. To wear the seat belt, to dawn the helmut, to clip into the bolt or to chop it, but that's another issue altogether. :D

tradchick

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2005, 06:42:46 AM »
To Climbhigh:  While you may drive more cautiously since you opt not to wear a seat belt or helmet, that doesn't say anything for the other idiots on the road. No matter how defensively you drive, you're can't control what they do.  And what about the occasional moose that just appears in the middle of the road?  Yes, nice to have a choice.  ;)

climbhigh

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2005, 08:21:04 AM »
Absolutly right Tradchick, I know you and others are right but I tend to weigh the odds. I have made it to 46 not wearing a seatbelt all these years or a helmet riding or climbing. I have a lot of great memories of the wind blowing my hair, yes I still have hair. I also love feeling the cool breeze while climbing on my head. It is a calculated risk. I also know that the odds will decrease in my favor with time. So eventually I may feel that wearing a helmet will be justified. At this moment there is something to say about not wearing full kevlar on a hot summer day, and just enjoying the ride while not getting all sweaty. I also believe that when your number is up it's up, and it was decided the day you entered this world.

DLottmann

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2005, 09:46:08 AM »
Quote
I also believe that when your number is up it's up, and it was decided the day you entered this world.


Hope your loved ones feel the same way... wouldn't it suck for them to think "If he only had a helmet on".  I'm not saying it might save you life, but what if it makes the difference between getting a concussion, and becoming a vegetable?  Was it your time to become paralized?

mtnperson

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2005, 07:28:08 PM »
soapbox time

this topic always gets me going. I see it from a different side I guess. Heres the deal.... If you choose not to wear a lid that is fine with me... but please make sure you have "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" tatooed on your chest, because if there is a child in the ER that was hit by a car, or some other critical patient that  needs the resources you are using up I have a real problem with that. Years ago when I was a medic in the streets we were tied up with an MC head injury (no lid) and we were kept from a call where another persons life was lost. One that would have saved had we been available... left a crappy taste in my mouth. I have been in the medical business for over twenty years and have seen this sort of situation arise, more than a few times..... so go ahead and enjoy the wind in your hair.... but it isn't just your life.... it might be someone elses too.
yeah I know... where do you draw the line?...smokers, seatbelts...etc...I don't know the answer   My 2cents

OH and back on topic... nice job Al
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 07:50:46 PM by mtnperson »

Offline Jeff

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Re: Sunday - accident on Whitehorse
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2005, 07:31:23 AM »
I echo the thanks for a nice job Al, and also would like to comment on the helmet/no helmet question. As an EMT and 20 year veteran of a CT volunteer ambulance corps, I have heard ER personnel refer to "donor cycles" more times than I can count, esp. for those who ride without a helmet. I have to agree with mtnperson about the potential effect on someone else if needed medical resources are occupied treating a helmetless head injury. BTW, your family and many others in society pay in many ways if you are left a vegetable. Climb, ride, etc. free but keep thinking about consequences. My habits changed the day my daughter was born.  Jeff Lea