Author Topic: An open letter to the community re: impact  (Read 2507 times)


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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2003, 03:23:50 PM »
I have been biting my lip waiting to chime in....Here's my .02
I have pursued outdoor interests for years now, hiking, climbing, biking etc... I spent 4 days at the Gunks this summer and picked up trash on every ledge I found trash on or anywhere else for that matter, in cracks, behind rocks etc...Because I care... I have been places people only look up too as they pass by in their cars and SUV's...I fully respect your opinion on preserving our land and leaving no trace. However, As I had a cigarette butt land on my car from the Police Officer in front of me this morning it occurred to me...There are bigger problems in this world than Slings on trees (that I do use) and orange peels (I frequently will dispose of my bannana peels and apple cores in the woods) If an animal does not eat them then they will nurish the land. Or chaulk on holds. Though there are people who give not a care to litter and deface the environment. I think that probably most of the folks here (I speak for myself only) are conscious enough to respect nature and as much as humanly possible and LNT. Get involved in more effictive ways of preserving what we have left of this World than lecturing the climbing community on doing it.
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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2003, 11:18:00 AM »
Trust me, Sparky - this was NOT my first stop.  I'm known at the mayor's office, as well as the Governor's (well, last administration).  And while I was seen typically as a pain in the ass at the mayor's office, I did get some things accomplished.

I do lobby.  And I hear what you're saying about the scale of problems.  it's so easy to feel like the other poster and say "why bother?"  But I believe that each time you pick up a piece of garbage or some other such thing, you're not just picking up trash -- you're communicating an idea to others.  I think that's how you have shifts in attitude that lead to larger accomplishments.

I'm a wee bit miffed that people instantly assumed that I was addressing the forum readership, or them directly, with my observations of poor behavior.  If you read what I wrote, I think I made it pretty plain that I was not doing that -- but I WAS saying, "please do more to try and head off that type of behavior - somehow, any way you see fit."  Because I know the jerks wouldn't read that, and/or wouldn't care.  It's peer pressure that will make a difference.  You all are much more representative of the peers that they'd listen to, and I have faith that you guys have the sense to know right from wrong, generally.

David Warriner

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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2003, 12:38:11 PM »
Let me get this straight...

I'm supposed to not use chalk on Cathedral ledge so that I don't offend the sensibilities of someone who just *DROVE* up to the top of the cliff?

Look, I'm pretty good about leave no trace, but let's get some perspective.

That's like telling the ice climbers on the Black Dike not to shout, "on and off belay" because of the noise pollution - over the roar of the snow mobilers.

Maybe the people walking up cables trail on Half Dome are offended by bolts placed all over Yosemite.  Of course they can't actually see any bolts, but they know there up there - offending people.  

Or perhaps that guy who almost rode over me on his mountain bike in the Fellsway is offended by the chalk I left on a boulder.

The list goes on.

But lets cut to the chase.  To take your argument to its logical conclusions, the most unsightly thing on cliffs are climbers.  They're ugly (well me at least), make a lot of noise and detract from the experience of people looking at the cliffs - from 2 miles away.

Maybe by leave no trace we should ban ourselves from the cliffs.

Anyway, enough of this nonsense.  I will continue to pick up other people's trash at the crags, pack out my own feces, be nice to trees, and generally try to tread lightly. but...

Chalk.  Sheesh.  


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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2003, 01:26:58 PM »
"Chalk.  Sheesh."

there was an article in either Climbing or R&I about chalk use in Michigan. it seemed outrageous, but apparently it's true. from my standpoint I say screw it... I'll use it 'till folks stop driving snowmobiles & cars.

Al Hospers
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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2003, 08:08:49 AM »
For my $.02,

Chalk and slings around trees, no problem.  Rope around trees for rappeling, BIG PROBLEM.  We need to be somewhat sensible here.

As for the trails that criss-cross the valley, has anyone looked up from downtown North Conway (hell, night or day for that matter), looked out from the top of Duckshead/Trollville in Jackson, looked out across the valley from White's Ledge.  Yes, those attractors of outdoor enthusiasts, big SUV, and screaming children (and yes, $$$$$ for this valley) are the true environmental impact we should all be concerned with.




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Re: An open letter to the community impact
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2003, 09:56:34 AM »
Whew! I'm not sure I want to post into here lest I unleash (... not your axes) the wrath or the american climbing emailers... but it's all a little scarily serious in here!

Now I don't want to talk down an issue which I think is very important, and I personally don't want to go climbing in ugly, poorly treated areas (Unless the ice is _really_ good  :) ), but there really IS only so much one can do. Personally, and I'm talking here about ALL people I climb with, I go out of my way to make sure I bring back any and all litter I find whilst out, and try to make sure that I don't damage anythin on the way.

BUT there are unfortunate things that do happen - abseiling in winter being perhaps the worst. Now we could all use ablakovs (*shudder*) all the time, but I'd rather see a bit of tat and/ or bolts every fifty meters and make sure most people climbing the route are safe. Also there's the issue of crampons scratching down rock - perhaps more of an issue in the UK where we don't have much rock, and some classic old routes are also classic winter lines - but that's pretty unsightly too. Now I'm not about to take my crampons off on every ab pitch or to be honest I'd probably be dead by now! It's rare to bang pegs in these days (though there are some fantastic lines which are really old aid routes opened out by the pegs...!)

I think the whole issue really is a balance between taking a caring attitude to the environment, but not at the expense of enjoying your sport?