They Died...but not laughing

[Tomcat]

The bolts on top of They Died got chopped.There used to be a pin there that kept some people out of trouble,last week I saw some folks toproping The Slot off that anchor,after doing a good lead of The Slot.The leader was out of cams and placed three stoppers,but the outward pull when you use that point compromises the security of the nuts.The nut anchor is adequete if you are belaying someone up off your harness and you are there to attend and see the anchor,and diminish the outward pull.The tree is toast.

The stoppers were equalised with a cordelette,but it looked far from safe.I know it's "a perfect A1 crack".But someone is going to get hurt there.If you do decide to toprope those routes,there is a big fat angle around back in the corner,it's hard to see.

Tomcat

[strandman]

If some one can't find a good anchor at the top of they died, then perhaps they should look again at the placements on the way up. I don't condone chopping of bolts but, ample natural gear exists.
This is a real crag NOT Rumney.

[ToddSH]

No one said this is Rumney.  I don't understand why anytime a bolt gets chopped in conway people have to bring up rumney. Rumney is what it is and people don't have to go there if they don't like to. Rumney has nothing to do with cathedral. We need to get that straight. There is plenty of options for an anchor on top of they died.  The best anchor for the slot is in the horizontal crack below the finish. If you build an anchor there, you won't interfere with anyone on they died. Todd

[JakeDatc]

No one said this is Rumney.  I don't understand why anytime a bolt gets chopped in conway people have to bring up rumney. Rumney is what it is and people don't have to go there if they don't like to. Rumney has nothing to do with cathedral. We need to get that straight. There is plenty of options for an anchor on top of they died.  The best anchor for the slot is in the horizontal crack below the finish. If you build an anchor there, you won't interfere with anyone on they died. Todd

Exactly!!!  WTF does rumney have to do with Cathederal's cluster fuck of issues?  If anything it should be an example of a place that has it's ethics clearly definined and most everyone is happy.

you can keep your "real crag" 

[slobmonster]

What mystifies me is that no-one will sack up and simply replace the anchors at the North End.  The chopping "event" of last year was one fool's folly, who should have known better to begin with.  Cathedral Ledge is not Rumney --this much is true-- but that does not mean that relevant anchors with a significant history (and implied/explicit approval) do not have their place. 

[punxnotdead]

It is just sad that a-holes have to keep chopping.  These people obviously have no regard for the cliffs and their future.  No, there were originally no anchors there, but for MANY years there were (probably been there longer than the choppers age).  Then they were re-established and chopped again (badly), to what end will this arrive at?

Bill

[tradmanclimbz]

Building an anchor in the crack is a no brainer. how do you get down when your done though? I havent done those short climbs over there in many years? If getting down involves sketchy downclimbing or killing a tree then bolted top anchors are also a no brainer.  cathedral is not and never will be a wilderness crag. It is a high traffic sport trad crag and chopping bolts won't change that it just helps trash the place....

[Tomcat]

I am not advocating for or against the bolts there.I have,in fact,spoken out here against the one's that were placed atop Bird's Nest.I don't need a lecture from anyone about anchoring myself there either.I've led They Died about thirty times without incident,and the Slot maybe 15,so spare me the lecture.I can make an anchor anywhere anyone can.

I agree 100% that a safe anchor can be arranged there,did so the same day we saw the sketch anchor.My issue is that as the bolt wars play out,the cliff keeps getting more and more screwed up.The piton was there for a long time,someone placed the bolts,removed the piton I guess.Someone chopped the bolts,great,now there is nothing to keep the outward pull off the nuts.All the anchors were chopped eventually and a month or so ago we reinstalled some slings on the big oak there across the ledge just so we could rap without pulling rope over tree bark.

Every time this s**t happens !! There were some functional slings on the rap tree over Bombardment,then we got the bolt anchor that lasted one day,then it got chopped but the slings are gone too.

For the record I thought the bolts over They Died were a good idea,they kept people from traversing all the way over to rap,knocking stuff down,throwing ropes down on people leading Child's Play,etc.. They kept the Slot and They Died more independant.They are no more or less"necessary" than the belay bolts on the Book.

What's Rumney?

[tradchick]

What's Rumney?

    That has to be the funniest line I've seen on here in the last year!

The anchor that Tomcat refers to was scary looking.  The guy toproping The Slot fell numerous times on his way up and I think is lucky the anchor held.

Seems to me that the north end is a place that gets alot of traffic....guides with clients and people working on their crackclimbing skills.  At times, there have been people on every climb.  I think the bolts should be put back before someone does get hurt by having their anchor blow, traversing along the top or dropping something on climbers below.

[OtisHo]

For years people set up belays with out bolts at the north end(the practice aid climbs) and the only people who got hurt were people trying to scramble up to set up top ropes. There was no need for the bolts,, they were put in without the approval of the local community, by a local guide, to make things more "user friendly" . He personally thought it should be done and didn't bother considering or respecting any of the local history.
 
I guess with Trad chicks logic bolt anchors should be supplied everywhere guides and thier clients and people working on their skills need them. Why don't you start with everything on the Barber wall, Pine tree and Turners Flake.

[Tomcat]

LOL! There already are bolt anchors at the end of Turner's Flake.

And there is a fine tree atop Pine Tree.And an easy walk off.If that were the situation at They Died I would not have posted.That is not obvious?

And a tree with slings atop Double Vee,that serves for the Barber wall. The "Practice Aid Slabs" are our beginner's area,and such as it is,people with lesser skills seem to climb there.

Todd,how's that horizontal crack belay work,I guess I'm not so good at anchors after all.I mean,when whoever goes last and cleans it do you just solo off?

[gags]

As a new hampshire climber, I do not consider myself a rumney climber or a conway climber, but I have always thought that this arguement over bolts on cathedral is rediculous.  And the climbing community in conway looks like a bunch of jack asses because they can't figure this out.  For everyone that is in favor of chopping bolts and anchors remember that there is always someone out there that climbs harder than you and may have a stronger ethic than you.  Maybe no bolts should ever be drilled, if you can't protect it without bolts and you don't have the sack to run it out, maybe it is not meant to be climbed.  So I hope that everyone who is in favor of bolt chopping has never clipped a bolt themselves.

gags

[slobmonster]

I guess with Trad chicks logic bolt anchors should be supplied everywhere guides and thier clients and people working on their skills need them. Why don't you start with everything on the Barber wall, Pine tree and Turners Flake.

The problem with your own "logic" is that continued (over/mis)use of the spots you mention --The North End, The Barber Wall in particular-- has already knackered the limited poor soil cover, and with it the root systems of the trees you so rely on. 

The tree atop Double Vee that Tom mentions has been looking the worse for wear for years now.  And at some point, be it five years or fifty, the cliff will be thoroughly denuded, anywhere within walking distance of a climb's topout.  I know it's not the most memorable comparison, but have you ever been down to Hammond Pond, outside Boston?  I learned to climb there in high school, and I remember there being nice healthy trees right on top of the cliff.  Now, the only remaining trees are thirty or forty feet back.  This is a direct result of foot traffic by prideful anti-bolt Cantabridgian topropers.  Hindsight may not be twenty-twenty, but it's certainly clearer than this Cathedral mypopia. 

The North End is exactly the type of place *most* appropriate for bolt anchors.  The "community" has discussed this ad nauseam over the years, I remember fondly several summers past with bi-weekly meetings, arguments, discussions, and even some dialogue.  One thing firmly agreed upon was that the North End's anchors, though not present for the FA were appropriate, relevant, and should be maintained.

[OtisHo]

Personally I think it's great that North Conway has a continual bolting war going on. It keeps people honest. If no one objected to bolts I think there would be bolt anchors on most routes and several would have had extra bolts added to make them safer. I could be wrong.

[ToddSH]

The only place that should be referred to as the valley is YOSEMITE. Enough of this valley shit. You guys need some regulation up there because you can't manage it yourselves.

The anchor in the horizontal works well. You just have to eventually go to the top and build another anchor. Shenanigans, I know. However, you will not interfere with anyone on they died.

Why doesn't everyone go climb somewhere else. We have all done these routes a millin times. Go find your own They Died Laughing. They exist throughout New England. Todd