Author Topic: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?  (Read 1068 times)

Offline Griffin

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Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« on: October 31, 2006, 07:47:58 pm »
Hey, looking for any info from anyone who HAS USED the Beal Joker as a single, primarily for water ice.  I know of all the drawbacks already about it being skinny, stretchy, hard to catch falls on, more prone to cutting, and all that hoo-hah.  I am aware of its limitations.  I just would like to hear from someone who has used the rope.  Thanks a bunch, just want to save on a debate about fat vs. skinny...

Offline ccclimber

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2006, 07:54:38 am »
i know it's not the joker but i'll be going on my third ice season using the 9.4/70m/stinger..used it on rock but really like it on ice..
Ed

DLottmann

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2006, 10:28:29 am »
Hey Grif,

I think we may have discussed this rope before, but here's my take.  It is the only rope I know rated to be used as a single, double, or twin.  A pair of these would give you many options, especially in a 3 man team.  With two people you have beefy doubles.  If you are cruising something with low impact falls or really easy climbing (slabs) these would be okay as singles.  But they are only rated for 5 (the minimum) UIAA Falls and put almost 500lbf more on your ice screw if you whip when used this way as opposed to using them as doubles, according to Black Diamond's specs seen here:

http://www.bdel.com/gear/detail/joker_ii_detail.php#compare

That and this warning from their site:

Warning: Used as a Single, the Joker rope may not be grippable by all hands and in all devices: in effect its fineness makes it a rope which demands expert holding and controlling. Caution must be used as many belay devices, designed for higher diameter ropes, will give reduced braking. As well, some auto-locking brakes may simply not work.

I have used these on Whitehorse, Cathedral, and Cannon as doubles.  I've used them as a single on Whitehorse slabs.  I am getting my own set for this ice season, to use as doubles and be able to put a client on each one and still have them on a "single rated" rope.

For someone who spends as much time in the air as you (j/k) I would consider getting a set so you can use them as doubles, or if you really want to climb on a single bump up to a 9.4.


Offline Jim_Ewing

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2006, 10:38:14 am »
Dave,
The impact numbers reported for half ropes is from a 55kg mass as opposed to 80kg for a single.  You would not get a lower impact number in reality when using the Joker as a half.



 

DLottmann

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2006, 10:47:50 am »
Jim,  I was just sitting here trying to figure out why you would get lower impact in that situation, and then spotted the difference in mass weights used.  That explains it, thanks.  So Beal 9.4 has the same impact force as the 9.1 Joker, which is interesting.  This would make the Ice Lines look better to me, except I can not put someone on just one ice line, so I would go back to the Joker's for that reason.

Offline Jim_Ewing

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2006, 11:00:06 am »
Well there's a little bit of smoke and mirrors about certifying to all three categories.  It's not deceptive but just good marketing.  There are other ropes on the market that pass all three categories but Beal is the only to have theirs certified.

Offline slevasse

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2006, 12:13:50 pm »
The guy I climb with has a beal Joker 70 m rope.   We used it last year for ice climbing and It worked fine.  I used both an atc and Reverso to belay him with as well as for rapping and didn't have any problems holding/belaying/feeding the rope.  The only bad part was coiling the whole 70 m after doing a climb.

DLottmann

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2006, 12:32:23 pm »
Jim, Could you point me to some of these other ropes?  Would they 8.9 Revelation be one of them?

I agree about the 70m being too long.  They only make it in the GoldenDry in a 70, and since I intend to have two, I think I would like two 50's for weight/coiling reasons.  Anyone want to by two 20m Joker ropes from me?

Offline Jeff

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2006, 02:14:39 pm »
DMan: Are you Joking?  ;D Jeff

DLottmann

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2006, 02:55:37 pm »
I would never joke about selling short Jokers!

Offline Jim_Ewing

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2006, 04:17:17 pm »
This may be a cop out but for liability reasons I can not say what other ropes pass all 3 standards.  Sorry.

DLottmann

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Re: Experience w/ Beal Joker as a Single?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2006, 06:20:48 pm »
understandable, Jim, thanks anyways