Author Topic: Rap Lines  (Read 2204 times)

Offline juanpaab

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Rap Lines
« on: April 12, 2007, 05:42:06 PM »
I didnt find this posted anywhere else but i aslo didnt look that hard, but what is the best (safest/cheapest) rap line to buy if you only use a single rope.  Right now i have a sterling 10.4 60m and i would like to get a rap line for full length rappels. I know some people use 8mil lines but ive heard as thin as 4 mil.  Is that safe? or should i stick with a thicker line?

Thanks
JG

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 10:01:48 AM »
for many many years I carried a 50m, 7mm rap line partnered with a 50m 10.5mm main rope. the 7mm was very light and fit in the bottom of my pack. my partners & I had no problem using it. always tied the ropes together using double fishermans and used a Trango Jaws rappel device for better control. then I started climbing with other folks & the skinny rope freaked a lot of folks out. some even absolutely refused to rap on it! so one year when I needed new rope I switched to double 9's & have been happy with that system ever since.

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Offline slink

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 11:27:08 AM »
 I agree that doubles probably work best.Sometimes I will climb with a 10.2 and trail an 8.8.I have always wondered what a good set up would be for a multi pitch route,with a rap off,would be.Anyone have any suggestions?Sometimes doubles seem like too much work at the belay's.
 Jim
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DLottmann

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 12:00:55 PM »
I'll be using a 9.4 60m single with a 7mil static tag line out in Red Rocks next week.  Very light setup I'm looking forward too...  Not a fan of using doubles unless I'm leading blocks in a party of three, in which case I have a pair of 9.1's.

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 12:01:55 PM »
Slink

I think that your 10.2 & a 7mm would be just fine.

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Offline wasatchinboston

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 07:15:09 PM »
I've always trailed an older rope, whatever isn't my lead rope at the time.  How well do the 2 different diameter rope feed on rappel?

Offline Eric McCallister

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 03:20:36 PM »
7mm paired with just about anything is perfectly fine for rapping. Use an overhand and make sure the knot is on the 7mm side of the anchor. If you're afraid of losing friction with a skinny rap line, add a carabiner or two clipped in below the belay device (assuming a tube-style device) and you'll get lots of friction.

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 10:33:50 PM »
I did this for years when I was going ice climbing in Canada. perfect for those long hike in's. no problem with rapping if you are careful & add a biner to the system or use a Jaws. stopped using it around here when friends got all wiggy about it.

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Offline perswig

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 06:41:49 AM »
My worries with an OH-only system are that the knot is pretty low-profile, chosen exactly for this to avoid snags on the pull.  Say your anchor point is wide-ish, say v-thread or leaver biner or whatever.  If you're running both cords through your device, regardless of extra biners, etc. they're gonna feed at different rates, and this MIGHT pull your knot through said anchor, creating some headaches:  now you're on the 7mil - not bad, really, but I'd prefer the 9.whatever; now you're sawing a bit on the anchor (v-thread = bad, no?); now your rope ends, no matter how matched at the start, are going to move, and this means maybe losing an end, maybe the skinny, if you didn't knot it.  And did you knot it, or not? This might suck, in an ANAM way.  Agreed, it's absolutely not an issue on thin chain or link rap stations, the OH's not pulling through these, but say you're bailing off something remote ...  Not suggesting one knot or device set up vs. another, just thinking out loud and advocating thought and flexibility, albiet in a groggy early-AM way.  Good morning.  Dale
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Offline Flotsam

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2007, 09:10:04 PM »
If you are looking for cheep solution then check for cheep-o clearance ropes from EMS or something.  I'd bet you could get something for under a hundred bucks.  It'll be fat and heavy but it will be cheep.

For the skinny solution I have been using a 6mm static personal escape or alpine escape rope from Esprit Ropes in Canada for years.  Not too many rope companies make a super skinny static, don't get accessory cord.  Anyway Esprit does not list this on their website but I do not think it ever was and I don't remember what I paid.

Performance review: It's a pain to pull and is as wire-ie as it gets.  I put the thick rope through the rap station and pull skinny, prevents skinny from blowing around.  I rap with an ATC; skinner ropes are faster but in combination with a 9 +mm I do not notice a huge difference.  The ropes feed at the same rate, since you feed it with your hand.  I'd recommend first use it under controlled conditions as it is a little different.


Offline bluesnpolitics

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 01:23:00 PM »
Flotsam,
I have a friend who used 7mm accessory cord and (thus far) hasn't had any problems. I'm just wondering why you advise against accessory cord. Most is rated when you get above 4mm.
DrewD

DLottmann

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 03:41:18 PM »
Flotsam,
I have a friend who used 7mm accessory cord and (thus far) hasn't had any problems. I'm just wondering why you advise against accessory cord. Most is rated when you get above 4mm.
DrewD

Accessory cord can stretch alot, making retrieval sometimes problematic. 7mm static works pretty well. I once read a techtip in Climbing that showed using a 5mm "retrieval" line, where as you rap on the single rope jammed at the rappel anchor, and pull the 5mm to get it all back. I will never do that again, as the combination of stretch and friction when the wind wrapped the retrival line around the main line a dozen or so times made pulling the rope a 45 minute epic!

Offline Flotsam

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 07:15:08 PM »
Flotsam,
I have a friend who used 7mm accessory cord and (thus far) hasn't had any problems. I'm just wondering why you advise against accessory cord. Most is rated when you get above 4mm.
DrewD

From what someone once told me and my non-expert experience.  Most rope companies seem to over lap skinny static lines and large accessory cord.  Why two products if they are really the same?  From what I have read accessory cord and other ropes are made the same but have seen in practice, in my hand they seem to be very different products. 

I imagine someone with more rope knowledge can chime in with real information on this topic.

I haven't looked into buying a new rap line for years... a fairly quick search of the web found 2 of the US rope manufactures also making skinny rap lines.  If you want skinny there seem to be several options out there.


Offline SMorton

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Re: Rap Lines
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2007, 11:32:34 AM »
The terms "accessory cord" and "static rope" often get blurred when talking about the diameters in the 7-9mm range.  They often designate intended use more than how they are constructed.  For example we make a 9mm Acc. cord and a totally different 9mm static.  The cord has a softer hand, has less strength and is better for "accessory" or prusik cord use while the static is made to be a lower stretch, stonger, lightweight rope for jugging, hauling, rappelling, etc. There is a blending of terminology by both end users and manufacturers as well.  Someone could use the term "static rope" and it might be the same rope that is referred to by someone else as semi-static, low stretch, accessory cord, prusik cord, low E, etc.

Our accessory cords that are 5mm+ are built to life safety specs because they could be used for prusiks, anchors, cordelettes, etc.  (I am not recommending that someone uses 5 or 6mm for rap line though) We do have a 6mm cord w/ Technora core that is high strength and low stretch that could be used--"powercord".  And a 7mm or 8mm cord would work great when used properly.  Our cords are built w/ a "static" core construction but they WILL stretch more than larger diameter ropes when the same load is applied to each.

The important thing for a buyer to do is not focus so much on the name or description but check to confirm the cord is built for the intended application. 

Sam