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Author Topic: Missing pins!  (Read 175 times)

Admin Al

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Missing pins!
« on: June 19, 2003, 09:22:58 AM »

I heard from Dave Kelly at EMS Climbing School that the pins at the top of Upper Refuse and ALL the pins on the routes under the Echo roof area are gone. He was at Echo Roof yesterday and was quite surprised to find key pins gone. When he started looking around he found that all were missing.

I don't know if this is someone trying to make a STATEMENT or just a thief, but any way you cut it this is a DRAG. If anyone has any information about it, please let Dave or me know.

While you never want to count on a pin on any route, be aware that it goes double now. Somebody is actively messing with this stuff and you may get up somewhere & find the piece you were counting on isn't there! Not only is this a dangerous practice, but it is going to be an expensive and time-consuming process to replace them.

NOT COOL AT ALL!!!

Al
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Bryan

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2003, 09:55:39 AM »

I climbed the last pitch of Refuse Via black lung and noticed the 3 pin anchor was gone three weeks ago.  Are the pins gone that make the 1st pitch anchor?
Bryan
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DH

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2003, 10:56:21 AM »

If it is a thief, then why would anyone want to replace the pins just so they can be taken again.  Unless you glue the pins in but that's pretty ugly.  If the pin scars leave openings for gear then what's the big deal?  Guess I'll have to amend my guidebook now though.  

I've never been up refuse but I was under the Echo roof before, as I remeber there were a few bolted anchors to rap off, I figure that's all one would need to climb the routes under the echo roof, granted they will be a little run out but that's nothing new at Whitehorse.  Personally I'd be willing to donate some pins for replacement but they will probably get taken again, especially nice new ones so what's the point.

I say just let it be, replace them if you like but don't be surprised if they disappear again.  It does suck that someone took the pins in the first place.  Maybe the cluprit is planning on replacing them and just hasn't got around to it yet??  

Seems odd that someone would take the time to steal a few pins when the real trophy is waiting on Moby Grape, that keg is serious booty.    
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bumpkin

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2003, 11:05:58 AM »

DH -- I don't think you should worry too much about getting scooped on MG, but just to make you nervous, I will say that I am driving through Franconica Notch on Monday and thinking of meeting up with a friend and going climbing, maybe on Cannon and hell, maybe on MG since we had such a blast last Monday and and and....

as for the pins, why bother replacing them? Cathedral/Whitehorse is such a junkyard anyways and the routes we're talking about aren't exactly going to morph into crazy death routes on account of a few scraps of rust gone AWOL.
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RickB

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2003, 11:26:34 AM »

Actually, the pin missing 15' up Holy Land, a good 5.6 beginners' route, will require a 30' runout up to the first bolt, so beginners will avoid it (it's of little interest to anyone else). The pin scar won't take pro so the piton should be replaced. Sites of missing pitons at the base of Return to Innocence and Ancient Relics can be protected with a small Lowe Ball and a medium SLCD, respectively. If the pin is missing on the second pitch of Holy Land, it, too, should be replaced.
I'm willing but don't want to cross purposes with anyone.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2003, 11:28:20 AM by RickB »
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Admin Al

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2003, 11:55:42 AM »

so what's next? is someone going to pull out the pins on Recompense? sure you can protect it with modern gear, but people have come to expect them to be there. then the pins on the Saigons will go as well as those on Thin Air and other routes. I think that this is bad business. sure these aren't all that hard a routes, but there aren't all that many good places for beginner or moderate climbers these days. pulling the pins does a real disservice to the community. the first asscensionist paid money to put these in and they shouldn't be stolen.

& BTW Rick, I don't think a lot of folks, especially beginners, carry around a Lowe Ball on their rack.

Al
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dogboy

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2003, 12:00:54 PM »

I can't believe that a) some jerk off is stealing pins (and off of beginner routes, nonethless), and b) anyone would claim that stealing pins is no big deal.  What the hell is wrong with people?  Maybe it would change everyone's mind if they got up on one of their favorite routes and found fixed gear missing...for 5.6 leaders a 30' runout is scary.  This is particularly annoying since a few locals put a lot of effort into cleaning up Echo a few years ago, making it a great place to take beginners, and now someone is screwing with it.  Maybe we should go up and put some big glue-ins in where the pins were...it might make it a little harder to steal the gear if you needed a hacksaw...

If this is the start of some self-righteous campaign against fixed gear, be forewarned: this will only get uglier and uglier....
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RickB

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2003, 12:21:28 PM »

Al,
You're right about the Lowe Balls, but everyone will have to start carrying them if traditional pin placements can't be relied on.... :)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2003, 12:22:36 PM by RickB »
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dogboy

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2003, 12:23:08 PM »

I'd prefer to carry pins...if someone keeps stealing them, eventually there'll be a scar big enough to take real gear....

BTW- One of the most annoying things about the pins being stolen from Echo is that a bunch of them were old soft iron pins that were real relics...somebody stole some real climbing history.   >:(
« Last Edit: June 19, 2003, 12:29:31 PM by jeffc »
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RickB

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2003, 12:27:29 PM »

Good point, but that hammer....
I think we should assume this is a random event and replace the pitons.
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bumpkin

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2003, 01:27:04 PM »

Hmmm....

I hope I didn't come off as a "self-righteous jerk-off" ...
I have no philosophical problem with fixed gear per se (although climbing a nice aesthetic route with almost no signs of previous passage seems so rare these days that its a bit of a treat).

But when it comes to pins especially, I can't get really worked up about them missing if only because I think its a bit foolish --personally-- to *depend* on them... given that I have managed to pull out a few with my hands...

Now if someone removed the pin protecting the crux of Dierdre well, then, that's a different story! (well, now I think about it, its not really, you just go from overhead pro to a three foot runout... and that's a pretty sketchy pin besides)
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DH

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2003, 01:49:44 PM »

After reading other,s opinions I think the pins should be replaced, or at least the essential ones.  I don,t think pins, especially replacement pins, are anywhere near as offensive as a bolt.  The point brought up about not being enough beginners, routes in the North Conway area is valid, at least well protected beginners, routes.   It seems like a lot of pins are mentioned in route descriptions in the guidebooks to the region, it would be easier to replace the pins than amend the guidebooks.  

What if the offending thief had replaced all the relic pins with new ones, would there still be a problem?  Are there any unwritten rules to replacing old pins, or what to do with them?  As a beginner I used to clip these things thinking they were bomber, until I hung on one in Seneca and watched it wiggle out while I raced to plug a cam in next to it.  Luckily it held, but taught me a valuable lesson.   I don,t hold much faith in fixed pins, unless it,s clearly bomber, but try to back them up whenever possible.  I hope no one messes with the ones on Still in Saigon, they aren,t an eyesore and I think they well placed.  Just my humble opinion but I do agree that it's nice to climb a route that has no fixed gear on it, hey that would make for a good thread.  
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dogboy

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2003, 01:54:34 PM »

The question isn't whether climbers should depend on pins...the question is whether or not it is legitimate to strip pins that have been in place for years off a climb.  Two entirely different issues.  I test/backup pins, of course...but just because pins *MAY NOT* be entirely safe doesn't mean it's OK to just indescriminately yank them.  And if a pin is unsafe and needs to be removed, please replace them rather than stripping them and leaving nothing behind...  If a climber gets hurt because they choose to rely on a sketchy pin, that's their responsibility and choice...if someone gets hurt because a pin was removed and not replaced, for no better reason than that someone wanted the pin for themselves or objected to fixed gear, that's the fault of the person who yanked the pin...and in that case the yanker deserves to be called a jerk-off.  And in this case the pins that were removed were perfectly safe...especially some of the ones under Echo.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2003, 01:59:56 PM by jeffc »
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slobmonster

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they're back on upper ref
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2003, 04:18:19 PM »

they're back... at least for now.  this is going to be one very interesting summer, methinks, what with the bolt fracas-to-be and this.  hmmn.
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Tomcat

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Re: Missing pins!
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2003, 10:39:33 AM »

I can't remember which is which under the Echo roof, and do not know all the new names but I have done all those routes and recall being very glad to clip some pins, particularly at an overlap on the " second pitch"( we usually do 'em in one). Do not remember the rating but I lead pretty competant 5.10 (spray). I generally will back up any fixed peg, and do not recall other options at the overlap. I have accidently ripped out my share of pegs, mostly blades I drove myself, what do people think of those 20 yr. old blades that protect the start of the Last Unicorn, blades are sketch enough, and the rock seems punky too.
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