Author Topic: Update on missing pins  (Read 768 times)

Offline dogboy

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Update on missing pins
« on: June 30, 2003, 09:27:59 AM »
Just so everyone knows...I went over to Echo roof this Sunday and, with the blessing of the MRS, replaced the missing pins on Return to Innocence and Ancient Relics. ÊUnfortunately, when I went to replace the pin on Holy Land, the flake which the original pin was behind cracked (although it still seems solid enough), so I stopped and removed the new pin. ÊThere is no pro on Holy Land until you get to the first bolt, about 30' off the ground.

I am going to email Kurt Winkler, whose climb Holy Land is, let him know that the flake is no good, and ask him if he would like to replace it with a bolt. ÊRight now the climb has no gear for 30', and it's rated 5.6....
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 02:35:41 PM by admin »
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Dogboy SUcks

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2003, 01:31:55 PM »
An update on the missing pins.  I will answer some questions in order of the posts:</b>

1.)Al - Not a statement - just a thief. So will Dave or Al be coming to my house to get their pins back?

2.)Bryan - Expensive? - maybe     Time Consuming? - no more than 5 minutes to replace, for those of you who have never pounded a pin.

3.)DH - I welcome your shiny new pins.  I will take them too.

4.)Being the culprit - I thought about replacing them, but they are fixed in a crack some 2500 miles away at the moment.  My thinking there being that the pitons will be warm in CA vs. a cold NE winter.  Happy pins are safe pins.  

5.)Al - s**t man, where were you when I had my hammer out BORROWING pins.  I never thought about the abundance of pins on REcompense.  Thank you kindly.

6.)Dogboy - This is not the start of a self-rightous campaign.  I simply needed some pitons for a route and I am poor.  If glue is used - the war is on.  That s**t is not right!

7.)I did not chop Echo Roof! My friend did.  Had I known  then maybe but, he beat me to it.  Relic Pins are Cool and worth money on Ebay.

8.)I have many lowe balls. Wanna buy'em?

9.)You would never know the condition of a pin from the ground cause you cannot see it to access it.  Therefore, starting up a route that depends on fixed gear should not be taken lightly.  What if the eyehole rotted out?  Are you going to come bitch and cry here?  f**king wah people.  Pitons are temporary - do not rely on them to save your life.

10.) There are f**king cracks and trees to get an anchor there.  Grow some nuts and make a anchor you wussies.

Afterall,  it only took a couple of weeks for nice new pins to replace the ones I took.  So no harm done.  Like Homer says, "Can't someone else do it?"  I said that once after the theft and sure enough.  

Thanks to all of you who supported my effort and replaced those pins.  You helped me to achieve my goals

Offline DH

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2003, 02:28:39 PM »
Sorry, Mr sucks.  
Regretfully I have no more money for shiney new pins.  I went to a strip club in Pennsyltucky and when I came out all my money was gone.  All I had in my pocket was a bruised hip and a coupon for next time.  Luckily there was a bottle of Scotch on a bus so i drank it.  Thank god for getting pissed and loosing conciousness.  

Em, did you fall on any of those pins??

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2003, 02:35:27 PM »
obviously he didn't fall on them 'cause he's still here. too frelling bad...

Al
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Offline dogboy

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Update on missing pins
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2003, 09:03:12 AM »
Hey Mr. Anonymous...maybe you should grow some balls and post under your actual name...although, after overhearing a conversation, I have a pretty good idea of who you are.  And, I happen to know that there are a few people at the MRS, IMCS, and EMS who would love to talk to you about the ethics of stealing fixed gear, especially since they, and not I, are financing your aid rack.  Bad karma to those who fall on stolen gear...it'll catch up to you eventually.

BTW: You did more than just take gear...the flake on Holy Land is no longer solid enough to take a pin.

:P
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 09:03:55 AM by jeffc »
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ATambone

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2003, 09:42:40 AM »
well, i'm not posting anonymously, and i am assuming that those who are most upset over these pins being recycled are depending on a route being pre-protected for them.  too bad.  live by the sword...

a

Offline om

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2003, 11:02:21 AM »
hey, ATambone!
if I find out who you are, I'll never climb with you. That's it. Not a big deal for you, I realize, you don't even know me. But perhaps if some other people do the same, your options will be limited. Or you'll be forced to lie about your actions. Good luck!

>live by the sword...
what are you talking about?!!! how is sneaking around stealing .50c here and there qualifies as "living by the sword"? you are pitiful
-om

Offline dogboy

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2003, 11:03:45 AM »
Think again A...I have no problem doing those routes without any of the pins.  But, I do have a problem with folks justifying taking fixed gear by saying that no one should expect pins on a route.  Hey, if they fall out becuase of freeze/thaw or erosion, fine.  But you, my friend, are not an Act of God, and if someone gets hurt because you stole fixed gear that is in a published route description, then YOU are responsible.  Or maybe you feel totally comfortable finding fixed gear missing from a route that totally pushes your limits...but I doubt it.

I replaced those pins becuase I know a lot of people go to Echo to practice leading, and they're just the ones who freak out when fixed gear is missing.  If you want to steal stuff, get your lazy ass up something hard and leave some of the hard men hung out to dry, rather than soloing 15' off the ground and screwing some aspiring 5.6 leader.  The self-righteous and elitist attitude implied in the idea that a 5.6 leader should not rely on fixed gear is absurd.  The run outs on those routes don't bother me personally...it's the attitude that goes along with the theft that does.
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Offline haircity

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2003, 11:15:18 AM »
This guy's a classic.

Do you steal skis too? How 'bout beacons???..good karma there.

If he pulled sh-t like that out west, he'd get his ass kicked.

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2003, 11:54:33 AM »
"i am assuming that those who are most upset over these pins being recycled are depending on a route being pre-protected for them"

dude, you make no sense at all. many of us are not depending on them being there & in fact I can climb any of those routes without them. HOWEVER, it really pisses me off when anyone takes things that don't belong to them. any way you cut it dude, that's STEALING, and there is simply no way that you can justify that. I doubt you care, but my opinion of you just dropped to the pits.

Al
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ludicrous

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2003, 11:57:02 AM »
Not only is this guy classic, but he/she is an ass.  And yes I know I have resorted to a personal attack, but when one's actions are such, then....

In many, many years of climbing I have never come across such an individual.  Usually when I disagree with someone i can somewhat see where they are coming from, and even though I don't agree with them, I can understand/respect their opinion.  As for you ATam..whatever, no such luck.

Stealing pins from a beginners area, where climbers learn to lead, that's smart.

This guy needs a visit from the gene police.  He'll get his eventually.

ATambone

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2003, 12:05:41 PM »
om, what i meant by 'live by the sword' is this, if you're depending on being able to climb a route safely because you believe there is a pin where you need it, then you've already screwed up.  if you live by that philosophy, then that philosophy may end up costing you big time when the pin isn't there, or it became loose over the Winter...  i.e.  live by the sword, die by the sword.

as for published route descriptions, i would say this...  just because a route description specifies a pin's location, doesn't mean it was right to put that pin there to begin with, or that it should be replaced if for some reason it's pulled, or falls out. what are you saying...  that if it's published, it's there forever?

as for bad karma, pounding in pins should be good for getting plenty of that.

i don't steal pins, or chop bolts, but i'm not gonna get all weepy when it happens.  if you're looking for someone to protest this, don't look at me.  i sat the less hardware up there the better.

a

Offline om

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2003, 01:14:51 PM »
So, did you take those pins or all this is just a childish prank?

If so, perhaps I might go and climb with you while you'll demonstrate the sword philosophy by not clipping a single pin on p1 of Book of Solemnity. Or would you rather show me the p5 of the Prow? just make sure you bring permission from your parents...  

Echo roof is not exactly Himalayas, not even Teton... This place is training grounds for people who might never climb anything higher then Cathedral. It's being very well looked after by the group of selfless and dedicated volunteers. By taking pins one would be setting them back couple $$ and couple hours of their free time. Perhaps someone's cute ankle will get shattered too.
-om

ATambone

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2003, 01:33:24 PM »
wow, ludicrous, not sure how i missed your reply.  lighten up.

yeah, it wasn't too cool for dan bailey or whoever, to pull those pins, i've clipped a few myself, but i think people are overreacting to it.  why all the emotion?  they are just pitons.  whenever i see a piton listed in a guidebook, i assume before i leave the ground, that they are either not there anymore, or not to be trusted, and if i'm not willing to do the route unless they are there, then i don't do the route at all.

the one and only time i ever saw someone pull pins was in lake placid.  it was a belay station on some ice climb i don't remember the name of...  the person pulling them was the local guidebook author and he was not happy that someone put them there.  whenever i come across a pin i'm not very happy about it.  my views are known.  keep the cliffs clean if at all possible.

finally, i'm sorry to have supported dan's pin pulling with my previous post.  i really meant to convey my ambivalence (don't care one way or the other) about the matter.

a

Offline om

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Re: Update on missing pins
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2003, 03:08:10 PM »
Sorry,  ATambone, for some reason I thought you are the original criminal :) Now that I looked at the posts I realized I had no reason to be so sure.
-om