Author Topic: Debolting  (Read 8796 times)

Offline Eric McCallister

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2005, 08:26:30 am »
Quote
    How would one go about clipping a bolt?


http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/howto/backclipping.asp

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2005, 08:35:24 am »
Why is it that blowhards like tim allways spout off about anchor building skills ::) most of this discuission is about replaceing EXISTING rap stations with bolts. there is absolutly no special skill involved in running your rope through slings and rings or in draping your rope over a tree. period! Zilch, Nada, Zippity Doo Da< No, none, I am getting a no over here, Nein ::) the only technical difference between  running your rope through rap hangers attached to bolts or drapeing your rope over a tree is that one method kills the tree were the other does not.

Offline snowleopard

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2005, 08:43:32 am »
For an after work pitch or two "when climbing to the top is not an option":
    Choose a route that already has a quick/convenient way off.  Among the 100's of established routes on Cathedral and Whitehorse, there are many great lines that already offer an easy and fast way out (without need to add more fixed anchors) after a single pitch.  Many do not have inherent erosion/ecologic damage issues.  
    Tim's suggestion to traverse out of Toe Crack to an already established anchor is one example of the many options
available for a one pitch climb.
     
   

Offline Tim

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2005, 08:53:13 am »
Its funny how everyone with "trad-something" in their name is all about bolts!  The top of these routes shouldn't be (and aren't) EXISTING rap stations!  They are the top of a pitch!  Maybe if all of the tat disapeared, they wouldn't look like rap stations and people would just continue on by.  (reducing the trafic at that one spot)  There are answers to this problem that don't involve the over-bolting of the cliff.  
So we don't want to cater to the L.C.D.?  But we should cater to your number, your ideals and your work schedule?
Look at the past... North End, Rumney, Humphreys, bolts did more to harm all of those places!  The erosion is now worse at all of those sites than it was 5 years ago!  Erosion at the top and bottom of the cliff are a bigger problem than that of a nasty loose chimney.
Go ahead, place your fucking convenience bolts!
They'll be there for the better part of a day!
End of story!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:59:22 am by Tim »

Offline oldsock

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2005, 09:52:08 am »
bravo tim-you're right of  target. vigilance against insidious creep(s)? is a never ending task.  

Offline oldsock

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2005, 09:53:01 am »
bravo tim-you're right of  target. vigilance against insidious creep(s)? is a never ending task.  

Offline straightlampin

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2005, 10:36:09 am »
Hi Folks,

Any new bolts added to established routes on Cathedral will be quickly chopped.  Likewise, any bolts chopped from established routes will be quickly replaced.  I'm not making any threats here, but just observations from the two bolting episodes this year (Bombardment and the North End).

PRESERVE VARIETY: This may seem like a f&*ked up situation, but it does have a positive effect: it preserves and provides for a variety of styles on the same cliff.  It's funny to me that so much of this debate is spoken in absolutes. Why can't there be more compromise?  Want to get in a quick pitch after work without going to the top of the cliff?  How about DMZ, Still in Siagon, No Man's Land, the first two pitches of Thin Air, Thinner, and Turners Flake, not to mention all of the North End and the Barber Wall. Fact is there are plenty of routes to be done if you want to get in a quick pitch.  If you decide to check out other climbs, you should be prepared for a different experience.  Three suggestions:

SAVE TREES, BUILD GEAR ANCHORS: Cathedral is god's own splitter granite, and I can think of very few tree belays on the cliff that don't have rock alternatives nearby (Yes, even Bombardment).  Folks need to open their eyes and look around. It might take some sniffing around, but it can be done.  And locals should politely point out that secret crack or stance next time you see a vistor girth the obvious tree.  We should also clean rap tat left on trees so folks don't think its ok to use trees.

WALK DOWN: So the issue isn't about anchors, but rappel stations.  There is a beautiful trail from the top of the Thin Air face down to the bottom of the cliff.  How come more folks don't use it? (It takes at most 20 minutes, closer to 10 at a quick walk) Besides saving the environment, walking down is safer, quicker and cuts down on congestion. Go out and get a pair of two dollar flipflops and don't bring the big, Rumney style back pack with the kitchen sink up to the base of the crag either.  You might just have a more natural, fun experience to boot.

PARTY HARDY:  It bums me out to think that folks may get the impression for this sort of stupid debate that Cathedral is an unfriendly place to climb. We should all go out of our way to welcome people to the crag, share our beer in the parking lot, offer rides down to folks who look like they might want one....   If you are a local and see someone starting up Toe Crack and it looks like they are planning to rap, politely explain the deal, and give them alternative ideas.  If you are from out of town, feel free to ask other people what's the best plan of attack for a certain climb.   With a little communication and education, everyone can get off their climbs and get along without adding bolts to the cliff. Lets make Cathedral the friendliest, most welcoming traditional crag around.

Freddie Wilkinson

Offline slobmonster

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2005, 11:03:37 am »
Quote
Lets make Cathedral the friendliest, most welcoming traditional crag around.

I think this might run contrary to the "character and integrity" of the crag, that we're all trying in earnest to preserve.

Thanks for taking the time to type that out, Freddie; it's a good ideal to have.
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Re: Debolting
« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2005, 11:36:40 am »
wow... there's 11 people online right now... it must be raining...

Freddie, thanks for the rational post.  I agree with almost all of it.  It is much easier to listen to someone when you are not imagining them pounding on their keyboard.  (Tim, you ok man?)

Offline Tim

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2005, 11:40:52 am »
Freddie your so damn good with words!
(D-Man I'm fine, thanks for checkin' in!) :P

Offline Andrew Bisharat

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2005, 01:49:13 pm »
If freddie offers you a beer, don't take it...before you know it, you'll wake up the next day with a splitter hangover and wonder wtf happened. I know from experience... The good news is that nothing cures a hangover like a little Cathedral granite.

Offline frik

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2005, 03:34:34 pm »
Jeez Freddie, i'm about to cry... stop it please.
Everybody: I'd like to buy the world a keg and ......

Next time we see you over at the big cliff, we'll make sure to make you feel "wecome".

Offline punxnotdead

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2005, 04:14:49 pm »
 Again,  the topic gets off point.  


The idea is that bolted anchors would help to protect the dirt ledges and trees that grow there.  Only those routes that fall under that category should be considered for a permanent anchor.  Multi-pitch climbs that take natural gear or ones that had no anchors to speak of, should be left alone.  One pitch climbs that do not top out certainly can be considered for a bolted anchor as long as it fall under the above forementioned criteria.  The "integrity of existing routes" would not be compromised what so ever, nor would any conveniences be made.

Enough of the Hardman(woman) vs. Newbie pissing contests, it is getting boring.
someone dropped a steamer in the gene pool

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Shrike

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2005, 06:15:13 pm »
Tim, let's look at some of your recent highlights:
1) "Climbing is supposed to be a challenge".
2) "Fun to me, is when it's not simplified to the point of being idiot-proof".
3) "Holes in the rock are forever! Think about that! FOREVER DUDE!"
I seem to remember you talking favorably about the retro-bolting a fragile flake last fall on this site. Dont' recall that you ever mentioned the name or if you actually drilled it yourself. Anyway.. to you the reto-bolting was OK since the flake was so fragile that a fall while leading it would result in the pro blowing out the flake. Hence, retro-bolting the route, which you said was led w/ Hexes on the FA,  was righteous since it would "protect" the flake from damage on future ascents. Did you ever consider just leaving it be? Are there not enough climbs in NH to hold your attention? If you "Had" to climb it why didn't you just free-solo it? Then you wouldn't have had to worry about the gear damaging the fragile flake if you fell. Wouldn't a free-solo ascent have proved a "challenge"? It certainly would have been far from "idiot-proof". Instead, you support bringing the climb down to the L.C.D. by adding bolts.
  P.S., my search capabilities are grim so I am going by memory and if I have you confused w/ someone else I apologize.

Shrike

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Re: Debolting
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2005, 06:25:05 pm »
Freddie Wilkinson.... your lecture is inspiring but I fear that it is incomplete. You mentioned that,"We should also clean raop tat left on trees so folks don't think it's ok to use trees". You should also make note that it is inappropriate to jump up and down with all your 165 lbs. to wedge a shiny metal beer keg into a crack and leave it there for several months.