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[Admin Al]

I think that toproping is exactly the point. I've seen people up there in the afternoon working the roof over & over.

al

[Steven Cooney]

While we are on the topic of removing unwanted metal from the cliff... some of you should concern yourselves with the removal of 30 pounds of an unwanted keg that was intentionally placed as a keystone to prevent it's removal and make it's removal dangerous.  Before you go writing crass and pretentious threads, make sure your house is clean.  Crass threads just polarize people and don't solve the problem or educate folks in the best way possible.  Those bolts may be unwanted by the climbing community but so is that piece of crap on Moby Grape.  People make mistakes and lots of them can be fixed.  Just be a little reflective before you go lashing out.  Sincerely, Steven Cooney

[Freddie Wilkinson]

Hiya Steve --

Let's set the record straight here... The keg was really my idea, and it was my 160 pounds jumping on top of it to fix it as a chockstone.  (For those interested, it was bomber gear, placed by hand on lead.)  Most other locals thought it was a good prank -- In fact, the longstanding local ethic of kegging on Cannon was first established back in the 1970s by Howard Peterson and has been around ever since. However, I know it irked a few guys I respect, like Art and Jim. So, to set the record straight for those of you who don't climb Moby Grape regularly, the keg was chopped this June (credit goes to Mr. Shimberg).

I hope we can all agree on a single ethic for Cannon, concerning both bolts and kegs:  Anyone can go out and fix gear, but then again, anyone is also free to remove it....

Freddie Wilkinson

PS -- The third annual "Swamp Donkey Disco" is tenitively scheduled for August 15, this time on the Whitney G.  Hope you can make it!

[BlinG]

It looks like you guys must have ruined Cooney's wilderness experience.

[beaner]

dont bolt where there is natural protection!
thats why they make gear.
hence the fun of climbing placing gear.
and climbing is fun to
if you dont want to place gear then solo it
if there is a way down then use it
we dont need to bolt up all the anchors in the valley
its so simple folks
if theres gear or a tree use it.
if the tree dies well thats the natural order fo things
thank it.
i agree the anchors on saigon are not necessary.
there are lots of anchors that should go!!!!
even the ones on thin air
simple guys
so simple
chopem mad dog

[trad_doc]

Let's do the time warp again...

[Admin Al]

beaner...Dale

as I was walking down Cathedral Ledge Road this afternoon picking up trash along the road with my 6 year old son I saw you go by on your Harley. I didn't see you helping take care of our cliff at all. all I hear and see from you is your effacing the cliff by chopping bolts and making messes.

you are trying to incite things by trying to get someone else to do your "dirty work", chopping the bolts on the Saigons. let me just be very clear to you, and to anyone else that is listening out there who thinks that removing these bolts is a "good idea." if the bolts on the Saigons get chopped, they will get put back as soon as I hear about it. that is an absolute promise! if you want a "war" over this crap, then so be it.

-- al hospers

[David Stowe]

dont bolt where there is natural protection!
thats why they make gear.
hence the fun of climbing placing gear.
and climbing is fun to
if you dont want to place gear then solo it
if there is a way down then use it
we dont need to bolt up all the anchors in the valley
its so simple folks
if theres gear or a tree use it.
if the tree dies well thats the natural order fo things
thank it.
i agree the anchors on saigon are not necessary.
there are lots of anchors that should go!!!!
even the ones on thin air
simple guys
so simple
chopem mad dog

A tree dieing because of it being abused as a rap anchor is not what I would call the natural order of things.  Live trees helping to prevent erosion on the cliff edge with a well placed and barely visible bolt anchor seems like a much more natural setting than a bunch of dead trees and an eroded cliffside.  You are the biggest phony and hippocrite going.  Do you actually drink this Coolaid that you are peddling.  

[DMan]

Dale,

What about a place like Echo Crag in Franconia?  Have you climbed there?  Everything there you must lead, since there is no trail to the top.  Almost all the routes are trad.  All the climbs end just shy of the cliff top, at double bolt rap anchors, protecting the fragile cliff ecosystem at the top of the cliff.  Letting trees die from overuse without considering alternatives is not following the "natural order of things".

[meclimber]

Let old threads RIP, lets not rehash the same topic on a differnet day 'cause some troller is a shmuck.

[DWarriner]

beaner...Dale

as I was walking down Cathedral Ledge Road this afternoon picking up trash along the road with my 6 year old son I saw you go by on your Harley. I didn't see you helping take care of our cliff at all. all I hear and see from you is your effacing the cliff by chopping bolts and making messes.

-- al hospers

Of course he's a hypocrite.  Was there ever any doubt?

-David

[beaner]

oh al i was taking a cool off ride after work.
i was in a hurry because i donate my spare time to helping people not
cleaning a cliff.wich i do whenever i climb when i pick up trash.
i travel and give speeches all over the east coast and central states to
help people.
it would be very selfish to always volenteer to help myself a climber
buy cleaning the rock.a lot of you climbers need to learn that its not always about you.go give something to the community and the world besides climbing.you cant spend all your time climbing.give back.
name calling is a fine example of insecurity, and ego my boys.
i love you all and ill pray for your sick spirits as i do for mine every night.
oh by the way if you want to save trees dont live in a house.ride a bicycle.
its simple the more climbers theres going to be erosion.
just on the trail on the way up.
so many of you climbers i see cleaning cracks and ripping off sod and plants off of ledges on cathedral yet your more ethical than me.
climbing is not ethical.
it is invasion of natures territory
wasps insects plants
not to mention all the pcbs from the plastics used to make the gear.
and the petroleum.
get a grip al or talk to me face to face.
im resonable and very friendly
and yes i am a hippocrit but look at your self before you start passing judgement on other people.
if thers a crack use gear if not maybe bolt it its that simple

[beaner]

oh and all those calling me names.at least use your real name so i know who you boys are.oh i didnt say i was going to chop them just agreeing with what was said.
im not cristian so i dont celabrate christmas.
or easter.
most people do.
thats what i call crazy
oh im crazy
ive been threw a lot.
ive been threw crazier things and lived
big cities bad people and lots of bad goings on i know about crazy.
your right dog boy im not a troll.i am very amused by all this writing on ne climbs.even my own.
maybe we should put some bolts above seventh seal and ethereal crack
save that tree.
make sure we put two bolt anchors one for each climb.
the north end has one for each climb.
we only need one rap spot on that side i would presume
coppertone please introduce yourself to me.
i love to climb
what about three birches
all those slings on those trees lets bolt them up to.
dont forget starfire.
that poor little tree.
lets bolt a rap anchor there
bombardment?
well we all know how that went.
lets bolt the rock above gypsy
thers a tree there
ariation, rapping on that tree
pine tree elimanate
lets elimanate that tree how could we do that.
two bolt anchor i presume
the ledge above hotter than hell
thers another host of bolt anchors just waiting to be born.
lets see it slobmonster bolt them up.      

[greylock]

Regarding al's threats to dale...or anyone else...

This may be YOUR forum and your little kingdom,

but Your reign as administrator does NOT extend to the cliffs !

[meclimber]

lol