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[the_other_andy]

Now greysock if you read Al's rant you would notice that the threats are all about replacing chopped anchors.
No word of threats to peoples health appear anywhere that I can see.
If he wants to spend his time and money administrating/replacing anchors then power to him.

Al is using the same wording that some nice young boys have used in the past regarding chopping anchors. Though Dana's use of words in this thread are more refined than Als there is still much hostility behind them.

Lastly who appointed Dana and his associates admins of the cliff,you?.

PS. Beaner, I hope your speeches to the needy are nothing like your rambles on here. It must take you ages to write all that dribble on purpose. Good job, you gave me a headhead.

[the_other_andy]

That should read headache not head, though theres nothing wrong with that either.
Hmmm, everyone over 18 on here by the way?.

[lynniefish]

i think i agree with the_other_andy about the speeches. and I hope that Dale has an editor (hey, maybe that's the way the editor gives back to the community, by helping dale) who can teach dale the difference between

threw and through
cristian and christian
their and theyre
hippocrit and hematocrit

and so forth. we all can't be selfish and only help the climbers in the world, we have to help people with their grammar, too!

[DWarriner]

I do
like
the vertical
thing.

The preaching -
and the cadence
are
kind of
like
Pat
Robertson crossed with
Paul Harvey.

oh and all those calling me names.at least use your real name so i know who you boys are

<Sigh>

D-A-V-I-D     W-A-R-R-I-N-E-R

-DWarriner

[slobmonster]

...[assorted rambling]...
lets elimanate that tree how could we do that.
two bolt anchor i presume
the ledge above hotter than hell
thers another host of bolt anchors just waiting to be born.
lets see it slobmonster bolt them up. æ æ æ;D

Dale, if you have any question about my motives, thought process, or damn near anything else, you can consult my litany of posts here on this forum.  I have taken great pains to be very clear, even repeating myself at times, so that people like you can have the luxury of having no question as to where I'm coming from.

Having done your research, you should be confident that I would by no means ever place anchors on the climbs you mention.  Your accusation is yet another example arguing via fallacy.  Please consult http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/; it's quite enlightening!

Along with a friend, however, and after numerous conversations with many people in the local North Conway climbing community, I did indeed place the anchor atop Child's Play.  My reasons for doing so are recounted in great detail here on Neclimbs' forum, please feel free to peruse, and comment if necessary.  

And by the way, if you haven't figured it out by now, I am Seth Green, and we've hung out at various times over the years.  At this point we probably even have some enemies in common.

[Jim_Ewing]

I ran some of beaner's stuff through an algorithmic translator in an attempt to understand what he is saying.  Here are the results:

oh al i was taking a cool off ride after work.
i was in a hurry because i donate my spare time to helping people not
cleaning a cliff.

 I was waiting until you all left so I could do my own type of clean up. �

wich i do whenever i climb when i pick up trash.

 Bolts are trash � or  the women I meet at the cliff are trash. � The translator had a hard time with this one.

i travel and give speeches all over the east coast and central states to
help people.

 I perform mass hypnosis on large groups. � Or  I give motivational speeches at Jenny Craig. �

it would be very selfish to always volenteer to help myself a climber
buy cleaning the rock.a lot of you climbers need to learn that its not always about you.go give something to the community and the world besides climbing.you cant spend all your time climbing.give back.

 The time I spend climbing isn,t spare time since I,ve been ordained by the Great Pumpkin to enlighten the climber heathens. �

name calling is a fine example of insecurity, and ego my boys.

 I don,t really call names so much as pass judgments. �

i love you all and ill pray for your sick spirits as i do for mine every night.

 I,m high on EX and your booze makes me barf. �

oh by the way if you want to save trees dont live in a house.ride a bicycle.

 Houses cause cliff erosion but not when they are on bicycles. � [/quote]

its simple the more climbers theres going to be erosion.
just on the trail on the way up.

 Trail work is pointless because climbers use trails. �

so many of you climbers i see cleaning cracks and ripping off sod and plants off of ledges on cathedral yet your more ethical than me.

 Why do you guys get to have all the fun? �

climbing is not ethical.
it is invasion of natures territory
wasps insects plants

 Climbing is fun. �

not to mention all the pcbs from the plastics used to make the gear.

 I use hemp ropes. �

and the petroleum.

 Climbing gives me gas. �

get a grip al or talk to me face to face.

 Al, I want to save your soul. �

im resonable and very friendly

 I,m going to hump your leg. �

and yes i am a hippocrit but look at your self before you start passing judgement on other people.

 My Prana pants make me look like a hippo and I don,t need you to tell me about it. �

if thers a crack use gear if not maybe bolt it its that simple

 If you find a crack with gear you should place a simple bolt next to it. �

[Jim_Ewing]

Here's some more.  

oh and all those calling me names.at least use your real name so i know who you boys are.

 That,s Mr Beaner to you. �

oh i didnt say i was going to chop them just agreeing with what was said.

 I agree whenever someone says  chop em �. �

im not cristian so i dont celabrate christmas.
or easter.
most people do.
thats what i call crazy

 Halloween is where it,s at and the Great Pumpkin will save my soul. �

oh im crazy

 I,m nutty as a squirrel. �

ive been threw a lot.
ive been threw crazier things and lived

 I was forced to drink beer through a straw. �

big cities bad people and lots of bad goings on i know about crazy.

 �I saw people driving while talking on cell phones. �

your right dog boy im not a troll.i am very amused by all this writing on ne climbs.even my own.

 I can,t believe the shit that comes out of my mouth sometimes. �

maybe we should put some bolts above seventh seal and ethereal crack
save that tree.
make sure we put two bolt anchors one for each climb.
the north end has one for each climb.
we only need one rap spot on that side i would presume

The translator immediately picked this up as sarcasm but nearly blew a fuse trying to summarize it.  Maybe I should throw away the keyboard and use the old punch card reader like the older generation did.

coppertone please introduce yourself to me.

�Come to my house Coppertone and drink some Kool-Aid and you,ll see things more clearly. �  

i love to climb

�I love to climb. �  No need to translate that one I suppose.

what about three birches
all those slings on those trees lets bolt them up to
dont forget starfire.
that poor little tree.
lets bolt a rap anchor there
bombardment?
well we all know how that went.
lets bolt the rock above gypsy
thers a tree there
ariation, rapping on that tree

Again with the sarcasm.  I,ll have to have another look at the code, the translator really doesn,t like sarcasm.

pine tree elimanate
lets elimanate that tree how could we do that.
two bolt anchor i presume

This is actually a trick question since the pine tree for which the route was named was cut down during the first ascent and trickier still is the fact that the tree was actually a hemlock.  He could be talking about the tree at the top of the route but logic hasn,t been applied so far; why start now?

the ledge above hotter than hell
thers another host of bolt anchors just waiting to be born.

�Frozen bolt embryos will come to term if left in the sun above Hotter Than Hell. �  Yeah I know, this one is a bit far out but it was the best the translator could come up with.

lets see it slobmonster bolt them up.      

 �Let,s see it bitch, throw down. �

[beaner]

i love those translations very funny
seriously

[two_cents]

Al,

I believe that you used the word 'war' in your monologue towards "beaner".  Well, in my humble opinion, those are fighting words to most men.

Greylock is right, maybe you need to go back and realize this website and all of your cronnies (sorry about the spelling)  don't own the cliff.  

Oh yeah, and since I am not published like you are slobmonster, please don't knock my writing and grammar, or anyone elses for that matter because I can pick on your writing as well.

If the bolts weren't there originally, should they still be there.  I was at the bolt meetings, no consensus was over decided upon.  My fascination was with the presenters and speakers at the "big" meeting.  I did not find their message unified with the sponsors which made for some real problems.  Maybe it is time the state takes it over a decides for us since no one else can agree.

Just my two-cents.

[DWarriner]

RE: Jim_Ewing

Funny stuff. Very nice.

-David Warriner

[slobmonster]

My fascination was with the presenters and speakers at the "big" meeting. ÊI did not find their message unified with the sponsors which made for some real problems.

I can't disagree with you on this one.  The "agreement" reached, however tenuous, was a consensus at best; the language used speaks to this implicitly.  I've read some UN resolutions that utilize language as soft and vague.  In the end, I felt that all those meetings might have been someone practicing the advice found in The Art of War; the "presenters" thumped the bible just as I expected.

Oh, and your writing seems fine  .  I'll never claim that my own is without mistakes; you should see all the cover letters that I've wasted time writing.

[Admin Al]

greylock, two_cents, Dale (beaner), etc...

in case you haven't figured it out already, this web site & forum is for the benefit of the local climbing community. I don't have any "cronie's" here (I don't think) and tho I have set up the site I hardly feel as if it is my "little kingdom". I allow anyone to post & discuss as they desire, as long as they aren't foul-mouthed or are major Trolls. no one is censored other than that. on top of that I try & stay out of this crap as long as I feel possible. if you disagree with my or others points of view, no problem. post your rebuttal. it's free...

hey, I even let anonymous posters like the 2 of you and Dale to post what you like. there are some who think that is a bad idea, that you shouldn't be able to hide behind a pseudonym. I allow it. tho I find it kind of funny that you 3 won't use your real names while Jim E, Dave W, Seth, me and others do.

you object to the word "war"? I don't see what the problem is. it feels to me as if Dale has declared war on the things that he finds objectionable. he has implemented a pre-emptive strike, if you will. to me that already feels like a war, only Dale is a guerilla, I am out in the open.

BTW - the beginning of this posting by Dana & Bayard from 2003 states that they were contemplating an action & they were offering the person who placed the bolts on Pendulum Route an opportunity to discuss it. did Dale do that? I think not...

I haven't threatened Dale. I never said I was going to do anything to him. I simply said if those bolts on the Saigons go, I will replace them.  at the MRS meeting in the Winter there was a major confrontation between two local guides. one wanted to replace the bolts on the Thin Air belay (not the traverse mind you), the other threatened to chop all the bolts on that guides' routes if he did! sounds to me if the war has already started. hey, if that person wants to chop all the bolts on my routes, have at it!

hard to believe that some take this so damn seriously, but can't come over & help clean up the cliff. priorities, priorities...

--al

[hacker]

I think "beaner" is actually ken nichols in disguise. Their cannot possibly be two climbers that confused.

[punxnotdead]

Dale,

What about a place like Echo Crag in Franconia?  Have you climbed there?  Everything there you must lead, since there is no trail to the top.  Almost all the routes are trad.  All the climbs end just shy of the cliff top, at double bolt rap anchors, protecting the fragile cliff ecosystem at the top of the cliff.  Letting trees die from overuse without considering alternatives is not following the "natural order of things".

Just a clarification:  The bolt rap anchors at the top of most of the climbs at Echo and Profile crags were used because there were no suitable trees to put slings on.  Where there were suitable trees they used them and put slings on them.

I feel that a few anchor bolts at any climbing area will help preserve the eco-system above each climb.  I believe everyone will agree that the whole area above the lower left slabs of Cathedral is torn apart partly because of the over use of the trees found there.  There is not much we can do about people hiking on the ledges, but by adding anchor/rap bolts, at least we are cutting down on the amount of people trodding on the soil and using the trees.

[DMan]

Just a clarification:  The bolt rap anchors at the top of most of the climbs at Echo and Profile crags were used because there were no suitable trees to put slings on.  Where there were suitable trees they used them and put slings on them.

I went back there a few weeks ago for the first time this year and noticed new bolted anchors at the top of Avalanche and Cooler Sacrifice, and the slings on the nearby trees removed.  Almost every climb there has trees above it if you top out... The Shield, The Arete, No Pigs... but the locals are choosing bolted rap anchors instead (which I obviously think is a good thing).