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Author Topic: Prediction  (Read 260 times)

RatBoy

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Prediction
« on: November 14, 2001, 07:00:18 AM »

Maybe I am being negative, but I have this feeling that this winter will be filled with more rescues, injuries and deaths than has ever been seen in the Whites.  There have been a surprising number of rescues this fall and the first party to be avalanched on occured this weekend.  If people want to get out there and experience nature - ill equiped or boneheaded or just unlucky - and get whacked, I really dont care.  But in this society such things lead to the government restricting my behavior.  This ain't France.

FYI, check out a portion of the USFS Tuckerman Ravine Avalanche Report - tuesday Nov 13:

Yesterday 3 individuals went high into the center bowl just below the steep center headwall which is between 55-60 degrees. They were digging a snowpit keeping track of early season layers and practicing their skills for the coming winter. At about 1:15-1:30 pm they were hit by a loose snow sluff avalanche coming off of the Headwall buring one person in the snowpit up to their chest and bringing the other 2 approxiamately 400ft down slope buring them only to mid leg. They were sent airborne briefly as they came over some small steps in the lower bowl. Self extracation was performed by all three due to light density and the loose snow nature of the avalanche. Injuries were minor (twisted knee and bruised ribs) and all three where able to walk out with some assistance.
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Lizz_Bartlett

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2001, 09:00:38 AM »

It's called genetic culling and it should be allowed to proceed.  ;)
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Admin Al

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2001, 07:27:56 PM »

yeah I read it & put it in today's Report even. I didn't include in the one about the two people who got lost on Lafayette on Sunday. there have been even more, but they haven't been publicized too.

look, you can stand on the trail & tell people it ain't safe & they will tell you to buzz off. it goes with the territory. the mountain is right off the highway & it looks benign. couple that with most people's "it won't happen to me I've got a cell phone" mentality & it is a recipe for a rescue. there ain't much you can do about it.

I agree with Liz... Darwin at work.    
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Al Hospers
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dogboy

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2001, 09:07:23 AM »

Course, everyone makes a mistake eventually.  Some good, experienced climbers/alpinists have been lost and killed in the Presidentials...the "I know what I'm doing so I'll never have to be rescued" attitude is just as dangerous as the "I've got a cell phone" and "It won't happen to me" attitiudes.  Those who have a respectful fear of the mountains are those who survive...
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Russian_Alpinist

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2001, 10:34:59 AM »

The truth is, ANY OF US HERE can be killed or injured in the mountains, at any time. There is no "immunity". Like Dogboy said, plenty of very experienced and good climbers have been killed. Alex Lowe, for example. Or Ned, last February. (may they both rest in peace).

There is no absolute gaurantee, we can only reduce the risk.

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Admin Al

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2001, 08:12:58 PM »

I agree with the Russian that we can all buy the farm at any time. still most of us understand the risks & act accordingly. most of us don't blindly do things that are stupid. of course some might say that climbing itself falls into that category tho...

<grin>
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Al Hospers
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RatBoy

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2001, 08:31:47 PM »

I was just making a prediction, not advocating any position.  But I am concerned about the politicians and/or public land managers getting all fired up to protect us from ourselves.  I dont want some guy standing at the trailhead inspecting my gear or my resume before I can go into the woods and drop ice on myself.  
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Edge

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2001, 07:12:54 AM »

     Even having beaurocrats checking your resume and gear is no safeguard.  I've been into Katahdin five times in winter, each time subjected to the Mainiac Park guys prior to departure.  We had no problem with that because it's a small price to pay for being in an unbelieveable place.
    The last time in, however, we shared the cabin with a bunch of gumbys from down south who were hell bent for leather to get up the Cilley-Barber.  After they got a pre-dawn start, we watched them crawl all day up the route and knew they wouldn't beat the dark.  Long after nightfall, when one of the guy's girlfriend was freaking out, the Ranger arrived to recruit our help for a rescue as the weather had socked in and help from Millinocket was out of the question.  We racked up and made plans to start up the peak just before first light.
     Then, at 4:30 am, the guys staggered into the cabin exhausted after stumbling down the descent route with dying headlamps.  Should they have been up there?  Probably not.  Were they in over their heads?  Definately!!!  Do they have an experience that they will remember for the rest of their lives?  Absolutely...
     The skin of our teeth adventures can be the most sweet, assuming they end up OK and no one else is put at risk due to sheer stupidity.  Accidents do happen, however, as being on any mountain can be a crap shoot.  I've been on many rescues, and body recoveries as well, and have always offered to help because I would want someone else to do the same for me if the situation were reversed (so far, so good).  If some inexperienced idiot gets in over their head, however, they should be prepared to deal with the consequences, be they financial or emotional.
     It's great that we have the Mountain Rescue Squad to show the Forest Service that we can and will take care of our own and protect the right for anyone to choose their path in the Whites.
     
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dogboy

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Re: Prediction
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2001, 07:49:58 AM »

Very well said...I couldn't agree more!
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