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[Jeff]

Dave, does BD make a proper sized spatula for the "pancake flip"? Inquiring minds... 

[lucky luke]

Hey, looking for suggestions on how to begin climbing trad without a mentor available. This summer was my first summer climbing outside (all top-roping), and the more I climb the more my desire to climb multi-pitch grows resulting in the realization that I need to get around to learning to climb trad.

I learned without mentor. There was few good climber in Quebec when I learned and it hapened often that I was the only party on three cliff as big as cathedral. When you look at the evolution of equipment, you have the pins (piton), the bolt boat in england, the first stopper, stopper with camming effect, hex with a camming effect, tricam and, when you put two tricam back to back, you have a cam. So, we have an evolution from bolt boat to cam ...and from pitons to bolt. Bolt are not a sport part of equipment, but in the line of the evolution of trad.

So: I place my stopper so I climb trad is false. There is many other kind of protection that people never use because they are too complicated. Keep it simple. Actually, the use of the equipment is so simple that a stupid climber like me can understand how they work.

The real meaning of trad is in the strategy to climb the cliff. In Quebec, I just have a line in a photo and a number 5.7. I had to climb a cliff of 400 meters with a partner who know less than me and nobody around to save my ass. Stategy, fall factor, evaluation of the solidity of the rock are somethink that can not be teach, but you can learn it only by looking at an experience climber. At cathedral, they have those climber who climb 5.8 or 5.9 with a lot of experience and the desire to climb.

[bentleyclimber]

Funny to see this thread revived. Over the past three months I've read everything I could and taught myself to lead. I've only led 50-60 pitches of trad (mostly single pitch with the addition of one gunks trip and one whitehorse trip) and am starting to feel a bit more comfortable. That said, I made one of my biggest mistakes yet on saturday, I let my ego get the best of me and ran it out more than was needed at the end (Zipper, Red Rocks MA) and slipped a foot causing me to whip a solid 20 feet onto a blue tcu. I looked up very happy that the cam held and then at my belayer and she was nearly in tears. Was a good experience, though not one I'd like to repeat to soon.

[MAmedic]

Whipper on the Zipper! Glad to hear your ok.  That has been a first or early trad lead for climbers for on the Northshore for a long time.  One word of caution, be careful what gear you place near the top.  I saw the aftermath of someone placing a cam under the little (formerly) expando flake at the top of the climb.  she whipper, cam broke the rock, she fell.  The person teaching her how to place gear didnt mention how much force caming force is.  Try it on all passive gear sometime.  Its a great experience.

[lucky luke]

That said, I made one of my biggest mistakes yet on saturday, I let my ego get the best of me and ran it out more than was needed at the end (Zipper, Red Rocks MA) and slipped a foot causing me to whip a solid 20 feet onto a blue tcu.

20 feet, so you was at 10 feet over your pro. Quite natural for a trad climber. If you try ant's line, the crux is protectable, but you lost a lot of energy and have to be take on your cam if you are not strong enought. The game is to push and place a pro at ten or more feet over the crux. Is it a mistake?

In one case, you lost power, on the other you have a longer fall and more fun and proudness if you succeed. Notice that you fall in the air, without chances to be on a ledge. It is a decision that a person have to take. if I feel weak, I will put more pro because I can not control the situation, if I am in good shape, I will plan where to jump without pro. Same person, two different situation, that is the game of trad, no rules to follow like a line of bolt, just decision.

If this can help you, try to do aid climbing. You are going to be more confident on your pro. if you climb some hard aid, where two or three pro are questionable in a row, you are going to be more aware of the possibility of a fall. real couragfe is when you know the danger and use your skill to make it safe, not to ignore the danger to be bolt