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Author Topic: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar  (Read 2561 times)

Admin Al

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2009, 11:19:41 PM »

got about half the routes in the database today. I'll get to the rest and pics on teh next rainy day.  :P

SUPER thanks to Jamie for posting all this stuff. it's wonderful.  ;)

 
--al
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Al Hospers
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Admin Al

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 11:10:01 AM »

JBrochu

totally up to Jamie, but I'd be very happy to do it.

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Al Hospers
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Admin Al

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 05:34:51 PM »

got all the routes in this afternoon.  ;D  will work on the pictures next week.

have a great weekend...

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Al Hospers
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DGoguen

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 02:19:15 PM »

Have been going to Mt. Oscar a few weekends in a row and offer a bit of information. I know it's a "what did you expect kind of thing" but I got a $75.00 violation in the parking area there on the third weekend for not paying the user fee. Again I know, there are consequences but that's the deal there.

On the brighter side, I think the area should be noted as an example of totally responsible development of a crag. Virtually every route I have done there has been thoughtful and very engaging right to the end. They let you work for the natural gear when you should, and clip the bolt when you are very ready. A great example of leading by example.
Going climbing is a lot more fun than arguing about it.
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Admin Al

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2009, 01:46:45 AM »

Going climbing is a lot more fun than arguing about it.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!  :)  ;)  :D  ;D  ::)  :P  :-*

--al
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Al Hospers
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Flotsam

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2009, 07:45:57 AM »

I got a $75.00 violation... for not paying the user fee.

A friend of mine has never paid the forest service user fee (not that I advocate this).  I am sure I can not explain this correctly but from what he told me ¦ when it all started the fee was "voluntary" and counted as a "vote" in favor of the fee program.  In the end the tickets were totally unenforceable.

As of a few years ago I thought they did away with the threatening tickets and would leave you a little please pay the fee ticket note on your window.  so the return to the 75 dollar "ticket" is news to me...
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JBrochu

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2009, 09:00:39 AM »

I used to just throw those tickets away because they were not enforceable in the past. I haven't got one in several years though, and I'm not sure of the legal status of these things now.

Edit: regarding what Flotsam mentioned about the voluntary nature of the program....

The Forest Service put the plan in place on a "voluntary" trial basis. They tried to say anybody that paid was voting in favor of the program, yet they also tried to enforce payment from people. The Courts ruled that if payment was a "yes vote" then people had a right to vote no by refusing to pay. The Forest Service kept putting these fake tickets on people's cars anyway, but stopped trying to enforce payment via the courts. Therefore I always just threw them away. I'm not sure if the program has evolved from there and maybe has teeth now...?

Before someone comments about how I should just pay, my response is that I already pay. As soon as the Forest Service starts actually making money on their timber contracts instead of subsidizing the timber companies -- I'll start paying for parking. (Assuming they still have a budget deficit.)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 09:17:52 AM by JBrochu »
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frik

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2009, 09:37:11 AM »

DG: Did you get an actual ticket that requires you to pay? Or is it maybe a "you need to pay this... blah blah blah" kind of fake ticket? Also - even if they make money on their timber sales, i'm still not gonna pay. 
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JBrochu

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2009, 09:48:57 AM »

Also - even if they make money on their timber sales, i'm still not gonna pay. 

FREEEEEEDAAAHMMM......!



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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

DGoguen

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2009, 01:03:57 PM »

DG: Did you get an actual ticket that requires you to pay? Or is it maybe a "you need to pay this... blah blah blah" kind of fake ticket? . 

It's the real deal. United States District Court Violation. Complete with registration and Vin number. Also an option for a court date if you really wanted to get upset and scream at the wall. Not sure what you would say. $ 50.00 forfeiture amount and a $ 25.00 processing fee. I would especially like to thank officer Herb for using his fat greasy hand to affix the violation with a generous pad of adhesive. Nice touch.

For the first few years I blew off the voluntary bit, then got a sticker for a few years, and recently had been getting a national pass that you could use when out west. This is the first year in many that I haven't been covered. I'm not advocating anarchy or anything but they should at least let you put the money toward a pass.

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Flotsam

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2009, 01:34:42 PM »

Good old internet... This site is way out of date but seemed to be the only thing that came up for the new hamster fee http://www.nepfa.org/

Apparently the fee legislation was renewed in 2005 and beefed up a little from what I understand.  http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/fee-legislation-summary.shtml

In their own wording is they need six "amenities" to qualify for the standard fee.  Which is the lowest tier.  I'm pretty sure there is only parking, signage and they will claim "security".  That's 3 of six at best in my book...
http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/about-rec-fees.shtml

Quote
Standard Amenity Fees

Examples: Picnic areas, developed trailheads, destination visitor centers, high impact recreation areas

Explanation: Typically, standard amenity fees are day use fees, often covered by a day or annual pass. Each site or area must contain six "amenities," which are picnic tables, trash, toilet, parking, interpretive signing and security.

Even better they want to increase the fees for next year.  5 bucks a day for a dirt parking lot.  Can they be serious? http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/passes/proposed_fee_changes.php
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Dave

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2009, 01:53:31 PM »

Hey Dave, I have never heard of anyone getting a ticket before. I am always getting requests to pay on my car at Rumney but never a ticket and I don't know of anyone who has ever got anything other than a request. I will never pay as the bastards take more than enough of my pay allready! If I ever get one I will be taking the time to go to court to fight it. I hope you will do that also if you can take the time just to make a point. Dave R.
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DGoguen

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2009, 05:26:37 PM »

If I ever get one I will be taking the time to go to court to fight it. I hope you will do that also if you can take the time just to make a point.
I do have the time but I'm not sure what my defense would be. I'd be standing there like Joe Pesci in "My Cousin Vinny". Yo, may I approach the bench.
I could argue my federal taxes should provide access and services to land that is publicly owned and officer Herb could have more time to clean the toilets at the Kanc swimming hole and not tax me further. I could say I didn't see the 4' x 8' red, white and blue pay fee area sign that I parked next to.
I could blow it off and wait to get pulled over some night coming home from the Moat and have a surprise arrest warrant from the "Central Violations Bureau" Real place believe it or not. 1-800-827-2982 to listen to a robot give you your options.
If it doesn't stop raining soon I could become right wing conservative.

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Admin Al

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2009, 09:00:33 PM »

If it doesn't stop raining soon I could become right wing conservative.

yo man...not a LWC, anything but that...  ::)

-al
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Al Hospers
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smartpig

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Re: Mt. Oscar: A Rough Guide to Mt. Oscar
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 11:28:28 PM »

Jon Sykes and I did a 830' Girdle Traverse first ascent across the entire cliff band at Mount Oscar in Zealand Notch (5-18-10). 5 1/2 pitches at 5.8R, A0. I had to do a four foot tension traverse to link one section. Started at the far lower left of the cliff and finished on the far upper right in the true British style of girdle traversing. This has been one of Jon and mine favorite type of adventures on other cliff as well. Great time!
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