Author Topic: Rumney  (Read 4461 times)

Offline climber697

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Rumney
« on: November 05, 2003, 10:33:20 AM »
With all the bolt topics going around, I am resistant to even bring this up, but oh well.
 I am not usually an "anti-bolt" climber.  When I'm in a tight spot and see a nice shiny I am more than happy to clip it.  What concerns me is when bolts are placed next to natural gear placements.  I believe this is the cause for debate for most people.  With all the Valley talk, Rumney has seemed left in the dark.  I know it's a "sport climbing" destination, and I respect that.  The reason for this post is I just discovered that somebody bolted the 5.8 crack by the Road.  It is a safe, fun vertical crack with lot's of natural protection points.  What do other people think.  Is Rumney the kind of place we can just give up on?  Is bolting a CRACK CLIMB ok?  My answer is no but I would like to hear other thoughts.
Bryan
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Offline Schandy

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2003, 11:00:14 AM »
I wasn't aware of the bolting of the 5.8 crack.  It always looked really good and I wanted to lead it trad.  I never got the chance because I never hauled around trad gear at rumney.  I imagine it will be chopped.  There is really no excuse for bolting a crack like that.  Period.  I would suggest that people chip some nice crimps on the inside of the crack so you don't have to use crack technique.  Rumney is a lost cause.  

Offline t-rad

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2003, 12:11:37 PM »
rumney is definitly a lost cause.  how can anyone imagine reversing the tide there?  i say go for it though.  bring the fight to the sport 'climbing' homeland.  properly remove the bolts.

more importantly, rumney serves as a sobering example of what WILL happen when traditional ethics are forgotten or purposefully rejected.  if anyone believes that the rumney ethic can not dominate the rest of new england, they are fooling themselves.  passing on traditional ethics is a slow process requiring mentoring, and dedication to something more complex than clipping bolts on a dry, sunny day.  this slow mentoring process is not keeping up with the rapid explosion in the climber population.  i.e.  it's easier to become a sport 'climber' than a trad climber, and the path of least resistance will prevail unless there are real efforts to educate and inspire new climbers.

adam t.

DLottmann

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2003, 01:12:52 PM »
Well said Adam T.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2003, 01:20:11 PM »
Rumny is an outdoor gym. Period.  Many of the origional lines were in fact put up on lead  in good style but that has obviously morphed into a diferent animal.  I think that there is a place for rumny (Right were it is) but  feel strongly that  people should look at it as the exception rather than the rule.  Bolting straight up crack climbs even at  destination sport areas is lame.  I understand the bolting of mixed climbs at areas like rumny but  not straight up crack climbs. That sends a realy bad message to new climbers as well as leaveing them no place to practice gear leading. I am supprised that the RCA went for that one. WTF? I would be quite interested to tangle with Ward and Jim if they approved It.  i seriously doubt  they did though. somehow I don't see a guy that soloed Omega and the dike in a day going for somthing that lame?

Offline xmikeyx

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2003, 04:17:14 PM »
i was at the 5.8 crag this weekend and saw multiple parties climbing "the 5.8 crack by the road", but i didn't see one bolt on it (except for the anchors which were always there). i think you might have been misinformed. either that or the bolts got added in sometime between sunday and today. climbs like "no money down" and "black dog crack" are both old trad climbs with only a couple bolts on them that have been recently retro-bolted so that no gear is required. i was kind of bummed to see that these climbs have both been retro-bolted 'cause i was looking forward to leading them sometime on gear (still possible but just silly). but i've climbed them both since, and dammit they're still a lot of fun.

the guys that put up the routes at rumney bust their asses to make that place enjoyable and safe for people. and i think they deserve a lot of respect for their passion and thier effort, regardless of how anyone views their bolting ethics.

rumney is a great place to climb, NC is a great place to climb. while most routes in NC go free and clean at some reasonable level of safety, there are some routes (camber, the last unicorn, hotter than hell, thin air hehehehe, etc) that couldn't be made safe without lots of fixed gear. conversely, while most of the routes at rumney would not be safe without the fixed gear there's a large number of routes there that require placing your own gear to remain safe. both places have plenty to offer all types of climbers. and as much as i enjoy cranking up reccombeast and placing my own gear, i also love going to rumney and working on some ridiculously hard 11 or 12 and figuring out the moves to eventually lead it cleanly.

it's all fun man - if it wasn't, none of us would do it...if you don't like it then do go there, but don't advocate chopping the bolts. that's ruining the rock more than anything else, and it's just pointless. and don't use the argument of "dumbing down" the routes at rumney by placign bolts on them. if you think the route is dumbed down, then move up a few grades until you realize just how good it can be to crank really hard on a big overhanging route with a fat shiny bolt ready to cradle you in the inevitable case of you falling off. it's better than climbing the same 5.8's a hundred times before you move on to the same 5.9's a hundred times.

my two cents.

wait this wasn't a troll was it? DAMMIT!!!! :)
Climb hard, climb smart or fall...That's all there is to it.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2003, 06:44:44 PM »
 ;DI think it must have been and it sure did hook you in.  Like I mentioned earlier it is normal for mixed lines like no money down  which was a fairly funky so so gear / bolt climb to become straight up clip ups at sport crags but  they do seem to leave obvious stuff like holderness corner and 5.8 crack alone.   Rumny is an outdoor gym and a good one at that. This is all the more reason to leave A few gear climbs for variety. Usualy when I go there we leave the rack behind and just bring draws. fo us  it makes no sense to putz arround on the few gear climbs. We do as the romans and push ourselfs on the  clip ups.

Offline Erik_N

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2003, 04:34:37 AM »
I'm glad this topic has been brought up.  I have been disgusted by some of the retro bolting of trad routes at Rumney.  What I am even more surprised about is the acceptance of this act.  In North Conway many climbers with conservative views don't even seem to have an issue with Rumney bolted cracks as long as it doesn't "spread".  
 To me this is the the problem.  If you spend most of your time climbing at Rumney you'll start to expect bolted cracks elsewhere and many of the bolted cracks are moderate routes.
  The efforts at Rumney from the volunteers is well appreciated.  However, they crossed a line when they bolt routes that easily take good gear.  I think that service of making the area a complete clip up is short sighted.  
 I am also surprised the Forest Service hasn't taken notice of these actions and the overcrowding issues it's created.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2003, 05:35:06 AM »
Eric. Rumny is an outdoor gym and the forest service dosen't give a crap about how many bolts they place and neither should you. the forest service is concerned with trail maintaince, parking and bathroom facilitys.   Bolting a dozen or so mixed climbs didn't bring the climberz, it was all the press coverage as well as the fact that like it or not it is a world class sport destination.   Why would you want to be the A$$hole that stired it all up and caused trouble between the forest service and the climbers?   I do think however that It would be good to have an education effort to let people know that there is a difference between a sport crag and a trad area. There should be some material in the Kiosk that lets people know that it is not ok to bolt cracks at other area's. Also if there is a specific climb that realy bothers you why not contact the RCA and talk to them about it?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2003, 05:47:42 AM by tradmanclimbz »

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2003, 05:44:27 AM »
Next time you are at rumny, instead of gripeing about how overbolted it is you shold jump on somthing hard and spank yourself ;D

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2003, 05:45:55 AM »
Eric, Could you be specific and name any bolted cracks at Rumney?          Mark Sprague

PS - My view on the possibility of the 5.8 crack being bolted can be read on the Newenglandbouldering.com board
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Offline climber697

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2003, 06:15:45 AM »
I am no troll, though I haven't seen the bolts for myself.  I've heard this from two people I don't think would lie to me.  As far as Rumney being fun, it sure is.  I enjoy climbing hard routes I would never(not yet) attempt on trad.  My point is why drill a hole and deface the rock more than we have to.  I certainly respect the people who have invested there time and $$ into Rumney.  I guess I won't write any more untill I go there and see the bolts for myself.
Bryan

Offline dogboy

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2003, 06:37:21 AM »
All of the griping about Rumney is just silly.  It is a great place, that many folks have put a lot of effort into, and it should be respected for what it is.  I'm a trad climber, and don't find the sort of climbing Rumney has to offer to my taste, but I go there once or twice a year to push myself and have fun.  Just because I might have more fun placing gear on multipitch routes than running up one pitch clip-ups doesn't mean that the one is more valuable than the other.

And the idea that Rumney will spread is silly too.  First off, I don't really believe 5.8 crack was bolted (T5).  Second, I know many climbers in the Valley who have put up difficult trad lines on Cathedral and Whitehorse, often with "R" pro, but who have also developed other areas (Wild River and Jockey Cap come to mind) mostly through the use of bolts.  Just because you place bolts in one place does not mean that you're then going to whip out your drill and bolt up Turner's Flake.  People do think about their actions, generally...and the slippery slope argument is weak, illogical, and has been proven time and again to be incorrect.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2003, 06:52:57 AM »
 Boy, do I hope that the cold and ice come in quick and give everyone some real dangerous climbing to do so that we can stop prattling on about slippery slopes, etc. Actually since the cold will also bring snow and skiing, we can enjoy slippery slopes and have more fun than trolling this site can possibly provide. Jeff (climb to ski, ski to live, live to climb!) ;D :D :P

Offline xmikeyx

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2003, 07:07:28 AM »
when did your friends say they saw the bolts? like i said i was there last weekend and didn't see any bolts.

oh well, troll or not i dropped my opinion on this thread like a big steaming pile :) hehehe. i didn't climb a lot at rumney this season because i was too busy trying to push myself at cathedral and whitehorse, but the last few weekends i've been hitting rumney a lot and i remembered how much fun that place really is. and frustrating too...dammit. :)
it's great to go to rumney and carry a rack around and do nothing but tick off trad routes all day. it's amazing how many you can do quickly. and people look at you like you're from another planet if you show up at the meadows and whip out a rack of cams. it's just fun.
NC and rumney are two completely separate animals, and quite frankly i enjoy having the dynamic. being able to climb a safe, gear protected crack one day, clip bolts on a 5.12 the next day and then scare the bejesus out of myself on a runout slab the day after that is pretty sweet.
Climb hard, climb smart or fall...That's all there is to it.