NEClimbs.com forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Reading the forum on your cell phone? There's an easier way. We've enabled a Tapatalk app that makes browsing the forum a whole lot easier. Check it out in the iPhone or Android store if you don't own it already.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.  (Read 84 times)

Dave

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« on: November 23, 2003, 06:13:01 PM »

One thing that pissed me off about the new book is that they included several access sensative areas that are on PRIVATE property. Definately not cool! I wonder how long it will be before they are posted? :( The reason many locals had never done a guide to the areas was because of access issues. The owners tolerated people on their land because it was a very small number. As soon as people start going to these areas there will be problems. Putting private property where the owners don't really want to encourage climbing on their land in a climbing guide is not cool and will only serve to make climbers look bad. >:(
Logged

rpdoucette

  • NEClimbs Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2003, 07:25:35 AM »

Dave:  Thanks for the input, but I don,t need a lecture on access.  This issue was strongly considered when putting together the new guidebook.  Many areas were submitted to us and we chose not to include them for that reason.  Other areas were mentioned in the book (without directions).  These were identified as off limits, to inform climbers so that we could avoid access issues.  The one area in the book that does have a lot of private land is Cape Ann.  The locals did NOT hold back on their own guidebook to avoid access issues.  They gave all their data to us, because they knew we were putting out a guidebook, and it was too much work for them.  We edited out many areas that they might have published if they did their own.  

Drb1215:  It is quite true that the photos don,t always correlate with the text.  The photos are meant to make the book more visually interesting, that,s it.  They aren,t topos.  We decided early on that an interesting photo was better than a crappy but somewhat relevant one.  The photos that do not correlate to the surrounding text are actually just fillers.  If it weren,t for the photo, you might just have gotten a blank page.  I think the olde time photos are pretty cool, as is the 1970s photo of a teenage Ed Webster.  

Some of the line drawings were taken from the first edition.  Certain areas (Hammond Pond, Quincy Quarries, etc) had perfectly good line drawings.  We did scan them in, run them through a software program that equalized the line widths and made for better illustrations throughout.  If you look closely, you will see small changes to many of the old line drawings, to correct old errors.  Other areas (Crow Hill, B&W Rocks, Den Rock, etc.) needed all new illustrations, and we managed to find very skilled volunteers to produce quality illustrations.  The locus maps are all new.  This (and the gps coordinates for the isolated areas) will aid in locating all the crags.  This is a considerable upgrade from the first edition.

This guidebook, like any other, has limited utility for the experienced, knowledgeable climber in his/her home area.  It is invaluable for the new climber, one new to the area, one  who wants to find new areas in the region, and to all future climbers who found the first edition lacking in some areas.  Go through the first and second editions side-by-side and you will see many upgrades in each area, as well as many new areas.  

First ascent information, as it was known (and agreed to) by the over 80 volunteers who worked on the book, was included.  If you know of other information that is not included, you are welcome to submit that, so that it can be incorporated into the next reprint.  We welcome your input, so that future printings can be even better.  If all you want to do is bitch, that,s fine too.  It,s a free country.

Finally, your phrase  poorly lacking sounds like a double negative.  Work on that, when you issue your next edition.
Logged

bumpkin

  • NEClimbs Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
  • Christopher S-G
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2003, 08:18:40 AM »

I have only given the new book a cursory look... this was yesterday, while climbing at Redrock near Gloucester. This is possibly the worst named climbing area ever since a) the rock isn't even the slightest tint of pink; and b) umm... isn't there an area near Las Vegas that's somewhat well known with actually red rocks... anyways, I digress.

The new book is amazing. It is well laid out, the line drawings are clear, the directions to the various areas are amazing. This guidebook is a book that you actually want to read. Yeah, the photos don't always feature the FAist or the current crop of harddudes... but they're awfully nice. This book represents a tremendous upgrade to the old edition which, although a valuable resource, wasn't really up to par.
Contrary to Dan's assertion, there is a tremendous amount of information in this book not present in the old one. Just count the number of areas and routes documented: there are almost twice as many in the new edition.

As far as access goes, I noted that the new book includes the landowner for every area included and is very explicit about access issues. This is laudable, considering that too often, climbers have no idea who actually owns the land. This awareness is critical in maintaining good relations.

Writing guidebooks is difficult. In the case of Boston rock climbs, it involves compiling information on almost hundreds of scrappy little outcrops -- some hardly worthy of the name -- scattered all over the place. Taking that information and making a useful book is also non-trivial. The editors of this book did this work on their own time, received no compensation for it, and will not receive any royalties. In short, we should be congratulating them on the tremendous service they have done to the climbing community instead of bitching.

Thanks Richard and Susan...
Logged

drb1215

  • NEClimbs Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2003, 02:05:36 PM »

Richard -

The comments / criticisms I gave were posted in hopes to have improvements made to the next addition. However, if you feel that all I'm doing is bitching about it ( a real professional way to handle criticism I migh add ), so be it.

As far as the location and subject matter of the photos used throughout the book, I think that some very poor judgement was used.  From several people I have talked to, they would much rather have seen pics relative to the area of the book.  What you would call "olde time photos are pretty cool"...does this apply to the picture of quicy quarry with the big swastika painted on the cliff??  This has a potential of being very offensive to some people.  Think maybe a little bit of touch up with a graphics editor, or maybe a different picture would have been appropriate?

Bumpkin - You must be an AMC member, or an incredible kiss ass!  I know that alot of effort went into making this book, and my comments were not pointed directly at those who made it, but the content of the book itself.  If the book was a free piece of work, say downloadable via the web...that would be one thing.  But, the book is for sale to the public, and therefore is open up to criticism just like any other for pay publication...suck it up and live with it.
Logged

bumpkin

  • NEClimbs Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
  • Christopher S-G
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2003, 04:21:13 PM »

Not an AMC member. Weird statement, though. Are you saying that AMC members are wankers?

So I guess I am an ass-kisser, huh? Let's see, I post my opinion of the book, and I am an ass-kisser. (Oooh... maybe Richard will sign my ass if I see him at Quincy... oooh). You intemperately trash the book and these are "comments .. posted.. in hopes to make improvements to the next edition".

Whatever, dude.

Logged

drb1215

  • NEClimbs Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2003, 04:47:08 PM »

Blumpkin -

I have no problem with your comments about the book...it's the jumping on the band wagon with the reference to bitching that I was refering to.  If I were to say the book is an absolute piece of trash...it's a criticism, not a bitch...
Logged

Dave

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2003, 05:32:19 AM »

First, my comments are directed at the book and not personal. Second, If an area is so sensative that you need to put a disclaimer stating it is "off limits" why even advertise it in a book. Directions or not, how long do you think it will be before people start finding these places. Were the private landowners contacted and asked about including areas on thier property in a climbing guide. Public property is fair game but I believe no private property should ever be put in a guide without the expressed permission of the landowner.

Dave
Logged

jeremy

  • NEClimbs Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • .efil si darT
Re: Quick Review of Boston Rocks 2nd ed.
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2003, 10:01:26 AM »

Before you tear into someone's work, perhaps it's important to decide the criteria for evaluating the new guidebook.

My understanding is that there was a call for a more comprehensive, up-to-date and usable guidebook. That's certainly what I hoped for. I didn't want another $15 guidebook. If you are cheap, there's lots of info online that will get you to and from the crags.

I spent a couple minutes checking out the book at BRG the other day. It looks more comprehensive, up-to-date and usable than the former edition. I also find it worth mentioning that the guidebook is professional looking, regardless of what photo is where.

I like the authors' philosophy of including photos of local people on local peoples' climbs. If it was all pictures like Tim Kemple FAing 13X at Crow Hill, would it be better? Perhaps more relevant would be a picture of a kid in sneakers and a helmet TRing Boardwalk. The photo images were culled from the entries to a photo competition a over a year ago. If you see repetitive occurrances of certain people, they're likely the people who's friends know how to work a camera.

As for the topos, we're not looking at a section of the trapps and wondering if the 5.8 variation goes over the roof or traverses beneath it. We're looking at small cliffs with squeeze-job TRs and countless eliminates. Simmer.

It took what? Almost 20 years for a second edition? Any "advice" for the next edition should be saved in a word document for the next couple of volunteers who are willing to dedicate years of time and effort while concurrently climbing, working, living, representing the access fund and other worthwhile ventures ...

We each choose how we contribute to the climbing community. I certainly do not believe there is only one way to do so positively. Please at least contribute credit and congratulations to the people who worked to get you this new guide.

jeremy

Edited to add ... While at the rock gym tonight I looked over the book with a more critical eye. I agree with some of the suggestions, such as the page for "Menotomy Rocks" facing the picture of someone TRing CroMag. It would be nice to have a photo of this lesser-known area. Also, some of the old line drawings should have been replaced, such as the ones that render blocky Qunicy Quarries outcrops as Chossy.

Overall, I still believe that orchestrating this effort and completing such a usable and expanded guidebook is a real achievement.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2003, 07:05:17 PM by jeremy »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.139 seconds with 22 queries.