Author Topic: Rumney  (Read 4424 times)

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2003, 05:55:58 PM »
Interesting viewpoint. I usualy feel like the geek when I go there with my helmet  on and oh sh*t kit hanging off the back of my harness. Seems like there are an aufull lot of them there special olympic types there that are climbing way harder than me. A bunch of em are even really hot looking chicks  ;D You must be one of those guys who soloes 14d so you don't have to clip the bolts  ::)

Offline erohsem

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2003, 09:56:29 AM »
no - i usually pound iron on anything that hard........

still more fun than clipping bolts!

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2003, 01:15:35 PM »
Not much point in aiding somthing that short unless you are putting in bolts for future free climbers.

Offline erohsem

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2003, 05:18:03 PM »
I will be placing bolts for future aid climbers     ;D

Hey, didn't Yvon Chounaird say something about sport climbing not being a legitimate form of climbing?

;D  >:(  :o

Offline ed_esmond

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2003, 05:28:20 PM »
i realize that comments like those made by "erohsem" are meant to be funny, so i guess i should just laugh:  

so here goes:  ha, ha...

but, i just can't understand his underlying attitudes (and the ones previously expressed by guys like "dman" and "t-rad.")

you don't have to like rumney.   in fact, nobody there cares if you think it's good or bad.....  but if you don't; there are literly dozens of other cliffs all over new england that aren't rumney.

if you don't like it there, the solution is simple:   go somewhere else....

to keep bellyaching about it; i think is very "retarded...."

in our 21st century society, diversity is thought to be a good thing, for example:

i live in a small new england town (maybe 2000 people) and there are 10 churches (there's even 2 luthern ones.)  you can drive another 45 minutes and there's a bunch more christian-type churches, a jewish synagogue, an islamic mosque, two buddhist temple (tibetan and cambodian,) and an ashram devoted to some religion i don't even understand...

and you know what.... everybody likes it that way.  everyone can worship the way they think is right, without worrying about what the neighbor is doing.  for example, no one feels the need to tell the "lutherens" that they're "retarded" for thinking the way they do.

why can't we view climbing the same way.... you climb your way and i'll climb my way.  you respect me and i'll respect you.

you go to your church and i'll go to mine....

that way no one has to act like a "retard....."

ed

ps.   and for those who will say that places like "rumney are spreading"....a little "question and answer period."

question 1) "how many crags are there in new england?  
answer:  "more than anyone could walk to and climb at in a lifetime...."

question2) how many of them are "just like rumney?"
answer:  less than a half dozen....

pragmatic: (adj) dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories.

Offline erohsem

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2003, 05:39:32 AM »
Ed,

This is tricky to respond to without rehashing half the topics in this forum but I will attempt to.

You are 100% correct - I do not like Rumney, no one cares, and I stopped going there a while ago.  I do choose to climb
elsewhere.  

But.........

To draw parallels between religion and climbing is retarded.  The last I knew - Lutherans were not trampling wildlife, drilling holes,
and chalking everything in sight, to get ahead in their religion.  Everyone and everything has an impact.  In the end we are all just climbing rocks - which is pretty trivial.  It's more impact vs. fun.  We don't respect religions that kill for their cause just cause it is their belief.  Sometimes you have to take a stand - in any capacity.

Bitching about it in a forum on NEClimbs is the lowest form of taking a stand.  Not very proactive at all, but it counts.  I know if I am scared shitless in my aiders and I have the option to hammer or risk a whipper,  I hammer 98% percent of the time.  I also wonder every time after the climb - could I have stepped up to the plate a little more?  Could I have dug deeper?  What makes someone like Charlie Porter so tuff on the inside, that he would risk it all to do it right?  Technology gets better.  I have tons of specialized gear to use when it gets hairy.  We have sticky rubber, cams, screamers, micronutz, ballnutz.  and on and on and yet we choose to rape a place like Rumney simply to have a place that builds our egos and ability.  Maybe that is a tad ignorant, but let's face it.  I am willing to bet that half the people that go to Rumney don't venture onto the longer routes that the people who provided the standard put up.  In other words - what are they training for?  Climbing is lots of different things to lots of people but when it impacts our resources the way Rumney or Rifle or so many areas, something has to come of it.  Either we give in to bringing everything to our level and shape our experience at the expense of others.  Or we try in whatever capacity to rise to the occasion and accept the unknown outcome and have a true adventure.  

A lot of people who know me could easily say that I am a bit hypocritical here cause I am the first one to clip a bolt at Conway in the middle of a route when I am run out.  I am not above it.  However,  I choose not to bolt lines I think are cool.  I don't participate in the Rumney outings cause I don't want to be part of the scene that goes on up there.  Climbing to me is an adventure shared with a good friend or my own brain far away from people, from time, and with as little impact as possible.  It is not just sport climbing.  Many climbers are guilty of bad impact.  Go do a route on El Cap.  I have personally taken three haul bags worth of trash off that cliff in the last 2 years.  Watching famous climbers from the Mountain Shop in Yosemite, guiding routes on the Captain, and leaving a trail of garbage behind for 5 days is enough to make anyone sick.  I have personal experience confronting these people with their trash after getting off and not one of them paid it much mind.    But I don't like it.  Should I have to climb somewhere else?  Hell no.  I love that cliff with all my heart.  Therefore I choose to start shit with people who fuck it up.  

To me there is no difference with the trash issue, the heavy impact issue, and the bolting issue.  Everything has an impact.  Limit yours to the best of your ability.  Stand up for the fight that makes the difference to all people, animals, and plants, and have fun.  Anyone who has suffered - truly suffered for a route, stood on top and felt the magic can tell you it's not about numbers.  It's about the journey.  The more pure, the more rewarding.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2003, 08:55:10 AM »
Pretty interesting getting a lecture on ethics from a hard nailer ::)

Offline ed_esmond

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2003, 10:54:29 AM »
emmmy,

while your "ethics" are applaudable, there are some points that are laughable.

if you think being called a "retard" is going to stop me (or anyone else) from bolting a route at rumney.....  obviously you've just gotten off the short bus.  in fact you've inspired me to name the next one: "special ed."   ;)

do you really think rumney has been "raped" and is some sort of ecological diaster?  i suggest some perspective: look at a productive farm field that's being bulldozed into more suburban sprawl.  try going down into a quarry where they process the rock used to build highways. take a look at the wetlands that were filled so I-93 in southern nh can be "improved."  oh and what about acid rain from coal plants in the mid-west that's poisoning new englands ponds?

yes rumney has a bunch of bolts.... if you removed all of the bolts from rumney;  i'd guess ithey wouldn't fill a standard trash can.  (oh by the way... how many of those do you fill-up in a week with your discarded junk....)

none of the bellyaching has anything to do with the environment... it all has to do with ego.  basically you don't like bolts because it's NOT what you like.   i don't know why that is, but i suspect it makes climbing availabe to more people... and that makes you a little less special.  

you've said, "The more pure, the more rewarding..."  the only issue i have with that is you want to be the sole arbriter of what's "pure..."

i didn't vote to make you the boss and i don't know anybody else who did....

you've got many good points, but you go off track when you and others insist they know the only "right" way....

respectfully,

ed esmond

pragmatic: (adj) dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories.

Offline Coppertone

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2003, 02:55:29 PM »
This post is a circular and never ending as the "to wear a helmet or not" discussions on the Gunks site.

I climb at the Gunks on a weekly basis.  I learned to climb there and it is my home crag.  I certainly consider myself a trad climber.  Anyone who begs to differ should try some runout Gunks leads and reconsider.  But you know what, I love climbing at Rumney, its fun.  Isn't that why we climb, to enjoy ourselves.  I sometimes climb at Whitehorse and Cathedral.  You know what that is fun too.  It was even fun climbing at J-tree, Red Rocks, The New and numerous other areas.  I have never felt offended by bolted areas just because I also like to place gear.  I have though found it entertaining to find many sport climbers who lead 12's, 13's and 14's shaking like Elvis when they get a rack in their hands and are on a 5.2 trad.

Many of you scream about how your not an elitist, but still shout at the top of you proverbial internet lungs to be heard and tell everyone who disagrees with you that they are wrong.  They are not wrong, they just disagree.  And despite what you say it is elitist to try and impose your values on someone else when there is a consensus about how land should be used.  A long time ago, after much community discussion the Gunks were preserved as a traditional area. Rumney, after much discussion has been tabbed as a sport climbing mecca.  Rumney has one of the best land management plans anywhere.  There is nothing wrong with either, both are great in their own right.  


Much of this was entertaining to read.  But in reading I do wonder how some can actually afford the computer that they are using.  How can you earn a living when you are typing 50 discusion group responses a week.  

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2003, 07:11:48 PM »
Good point. What exactly is the worker productivity rate for climberz involved in ethics discussions vs the rest of the workforce that is surfing the porn sites or shopping while on the clock :o

Offline arhan

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2004, 12:55:57 PM »
Trad climbers tend to react to sport climbing like old men listening to hip hop. No person on earth truly has the right to decide if bolting is right. However claiming it's wrong because it defaces the rock and removing them is not smart. Does removing the bolt somehow magically reverse the bolt's effects? NO. So leave them alone so people who couldn't safely place trad gear or don't even want to can climb safer. If you really care about the earth (not just preserving your preferred climbing methods) try to really fight global warming, over development and harvesting of natural resources, or any other more critical existing cause. However every person who climbs should seriously consider of the effects of their actions, and be very aware of the time it took for these massive stones to develop.  


why do I have to work

Offline rustyrat

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Re: Rumney
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2004, 05:59:39 AM »
Yawn, yawn, yawn. erohsem what's up man, can't you get off the ground at Rumney or something? to many teenage climbers showing you up?

Do we have to keep hearing you go on and on about Rumney, yet it's fine for you to bang pins in and scare the rock when ever you wish? Climibng indeed has something for everyone. So the climbinmg scene sucks for you at Rumney, well that's fine for everyone concerned, sounds like you'd be misery itself if you showed up anyway. So better you stay  a top your isolated tower and fling stones from there.

I respect your desicion to not like Rumney, but please lets not keep hearing about it. We get the point and you're welcome to it - no ones trying to knock you or what you do. Live and let live. Plenty of bad ass hard core trad climbers have a lot of fun at Rumney and plenty of 5.13+ sport weenies form Rumney have gone on to kick butt on trad routes -it's just another fun place to play. Trad climbers at Cathedral do just as much damage to the enviroment as sport weenies at Rumney, though I have to say that at Rumney they've done a far better job of containing that damage and building trails etc. Checked out the damaged vegitation above the 3 Birches/Bombardment ledge recently? All those healthy fat trees and deep sod cover that exsisted 15 years ago is going fast man - and it's ugly. It's apparent that trad climbers don't walk on water, they do indeed walk on dirt and pull on trees with the best of them.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 07:58:13 AM by rustyrat »