Author Topic: Gearing up  (Read 752 times)

Offline DCSwish23

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Gearing up
« on: July 05, 2010, 04:57:44 PM »
I've been climbing for several years doing mostly sport and whatever people will take me up due to my lack of money.  It's time for me to finally buy trad gear and I have several questions.

I do mostly sport right now due to lack of gear, but want to do trad and big wall.  For location...everywhere.  I live on the east coast, I'm taking an XC trip, and I have no clue where I'll be in a year.  I do some ice climbing too.

1.  Nuts nuts nuts, I need nuts...so which ones should I buy or does it matter?  BD is the most common I've encountered, but are they the best? Should I go for the best or is it all about the same and I should go for whatever is a deal?

2. Cams.  Brand?  I've used BD and really like them, not a fan of the metolius cams (except master) because I feel like I'll drop them when I place them.

3. I have the basics (rope, draws, webbing, cordelette) is there anything else that I should get?

4. I'm considering getting a new rope too (esp if #5 comes through), what's your rec & why?

5. Looks like I'll be spending hundreds of dollars on gear all at once, is there anywhere I can get a discount on it?

Offline llamero

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2010, 09:28:15 PM »
I haven't been climbing all that long myself, but that also means I've recently purchased my own rack.  The best advice I could give would be to climb with various partners and try out their rack and try out all the different types of pro.  From there, you'll have a better idea of what's out there, and how they work (or don't work) in the real world.

Another factor is where you'll be climbing, as the pro you'll want will normally be specific to the area.  Acadia National Park, for example, makes good use of cams all the way up to #4, nuts, and micro stoppers.  Meanwhile, Camden makes good use of TCU's and tricams, and Clifton is nuts, cams, and tricams.  There's also other great toys out there such a ball nuts, etc. that may also be very useful in your area.

Also, don't buy in all at once, get a small rack and climb some G climbs.  You'll soon find yourself wishing you had X, Y or Z and then get to debate with yourself on whether its worth the expense.  For example, my wife and I climbed 2 years w/o a rope bag and finally caved and bought one this weekend.  Going without for so long has definitely made us appreciate our new acquisition all the more.
It is better to not summit and wish you had, than to summit and wish you hadn't.

Offline sneoh

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2010, 10:54:45 PM »

You may be able to glean some useful info from this thread -
http://www.neclimbs.com/smf_bbs/index.php?topic=5884.0

Good luck.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline strandman

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2010, 09:08:44 AM »
I've been climbing for several years doing mostly sport and whatever people will take me up due to my lack of money.  It's time for me to finally buy trad gear and I have several questions.

I do mostly sport right now due to lack of gear, but want to do trad and big wall.  For location...everywhere.  I live on the east coast, I'm taking an XC trip, and I have no clue where I'll be in a year.  I do some ice climbing too.

1.  Nuts nuts nuts, I need nuts...so which ones should I buy or does it matter?  BD is the most common I've encountered, but are they the best? Should I go for the best or is it all about the same and I should go for whatever is a deal?

2. Cams.  Brand?  I've used BD and really like them, not a fan of the metolius cams (except master) because I feel like I'll drop them when I place them.

3. I have the basics (rope, draws, webbing, cordelette) is there anything else that I should get?

4. I'm considering getting a new rope too (esp if #5 comes through), what's your rec & why?

5. Looks like I'll be spending hundreds of dollars on gear all at once, is there anywhere I can get a discount on it?

It's prolly just me but, I have never much liked BD stuff. It's just what you are used to though. Wild Country. Wired Bliss and Metolius were/are my 'faves. i would not get tied into one brand though just 'cause they easy to find
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 03:45:48 PM by Admin Al »

Offline Wally

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 04:23:53 PM »
Some good suggestions so far, also consider:

 - BD cams overlap in size so fewer cover the same range, BUT they are heavy.

 - the lightest cams are rigid stem friends.

 - You only need one set of stoppers unless you are really going to climb aid. In either case the micro sizes will be most useful, since for larger cracks you will use a cam. DMM pee nuts are awesome.

 - Hexes are still around because they are light and cheap. if you are going into the mountains -they are a great choice - easy on the pack weight and no big deal to leave behind in a bail anchor.

- rope choice depends a lot on type of climbing - in the mountains you need two ropes so why not use double 9s. leaves you in a pinch for aid climbing and sport, so you really need a work horse 10.5, too.

- the gear companies mostly sell hardware at cost and make money on soft goods (clothes). you won't be likely to find exceptional deals, but the older style cams are past their patent protection date, so secondary mfrs are making and selling them for less than the brand new BDs. They worked for us in the 90s, so look around for those.

- a good way to get good gear cheap is to find a rich kid that bought everything before he realized he didnt like climbing - i wouldnt buy used slings rope or harness, but I think newish looking cams, etc are fine.

good luck


Offline strandman

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 07:39:11 PM »
to keep my " being a prick" thread alive-

"Bd cams have a wider range because they compromised the cam angle for greater "range: the proper cam angle was figured out by Ray jardine/ bill forrest/ abloov years ago.

friends were a " constant angle cam" therefore always having the same interaction with the rock.

Sorry for the rant but i think that the BD shit needs to be known. F camalots

Offline JBro

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 10:55:16 PM »
Are you saying camalots are compromised in strength or holding ability? I would be shocked if that could be proven.

And wasn't it Greg Lowe (or George I always get them screwed up) that Jardine ripped off the friends idea from? Plus the maniac went chipping holds on the Nose so F him too while we're F'ing.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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Offline strandman

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 11:03:51 AM »
well the constant cam angle has been around for a about a thousand years if i remember my physics. If you change it to get more expansion range , you do somewhat change holding power.
Jardine was following in bridwell's steps ( bird chipped footholds on Wheat Thin)

Offline Wally

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 10:24:16 AM »
Friends were the original and best. Everyone else had to tweak the design to avoid patent infringement. I believe George Lowe's camming devices were passive (i.e. tri-cams) - not really a prototype of the friend. RJ was/is a highly trained engineer - it is unlikley that any other climber of his generation had the training to have done better (except perhaps Lowe, who was also an engineer) - Ray is also the godfather of "light is right". The whole tribe should be grateful for his contributions to our pursuit.

Wally

Offline frik

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 02:10:18 PM »
Pretty sure Greg Low is the guy who came up with the SLCD concept but was .... um "beaten to the market"
There is a big long thread over on supertopo about this, lots if interesting historical details.. Jardine doesn't come out of it looking too good either.  http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=855501&msg=856915#msg856915

Strand: so the compromised constant cam angle on a camaloot, how much does that compromise the strength?





Offline JBro

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 02:49:25 PM »
Quote
For those interested in the cam angle though this is what BD had to say: The cam angle we use is in the middle of what we have measured on our competitors cams (as low as 12.5 degrees and as high as 21 degrees). Camalots are at 14.5 degrees. There is no single magic number for cam angle; the proof the long-term use. Camalots have been on the market for over 20 years and are holding falls in all kinds of rock all over the world. I think the cam angle argument is officially dead.

Source: http://www.alpineexposures.com/pages/black-diamond-c4-camalot-review

Edit: but faaak BD and the camalots they rode in on!


Regarding the SLCD controversy: I've read several accounts in magazines and books and they all accuse Jardine of stealing the SLCD idea from Greg Lowe, who apparantly showed Jardine his design (and indicated the it was confidential) while in the company of Jeff Lowe (user name Jello in the taco thread). Seems if the info wasn't true Jeff Lowe would have gotten sued for slander a long time ago.

Edit: on the taco thread it says Greg Lowe filed suit against Jardine and it was settled out of court with the owner of Wild Country. So it seems like a slam dunk case against Jardine. It just goes to show that a guy who will chip holds on the Nose and thru-hike the AT several times can't be trusted at a spaghetti dinner.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 03:00:23 PM by JBrochu »
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Offline frik

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2010, 03:33:24 PM »
The guy's a hiker too? I should have guessed as much.

Offline ELM

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 07:05:02 PM »
Hey...some hikers are ok. Anyone have a go at Tom Frosts sentinal nuts ? Crap.......... that last sentance will haunt me....I 'ment use them...opinions etc ?
Ed Matt
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Offline strandman

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 11:15:45 PM »
I don't know if Lowe showed jardine his originals or not but it must have been kinda sucky 'cause the first Friends didn't have a TRIGGER bar ! REALLY.

frik- I'm not exactly sure how much Bd's strength is compromised but the greater range you seek with cam angle, the less grip you get. I'm sure it's not significant.



Offline Old Mans Ghost

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Re: Gearing up
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 09:46:48 AM »
I don't know if Lowe showed jardine his originals or not but it must have been kinda sucky 'cause the first Friends didn't have a TRIGGER bar ! REALLY.

The first water bong didn't have a carburator but you could most certainly use it to get stoned.
I have a question? Who does number one work for.