Author Topic: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?  (Read 2494 times)

DLottmann

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2010, 10:18:24 PM »
So funny- I did the 3rd ascent of HTH and it seemed fine- Trust me I was barely  9+ leader. This may lead to the ""popular" thread which is BS

What this is, I don't even know. No mention as to whether any other bolt other than the one that was listed as added in the guidebook was added, yet you are creating an issue/debate regardless.

DLottmann

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2010, 10:27:47 PM »
We're going around in circles.  We already have established that a route can be deemed "popular" because it gets done  a lot (i.e. Parking Lot wall routes at Rumney) or because it is aspired to be done a lot but is typically a once in a life time thing.  Hopefully this crowd goes by the mostly by the second criteria and doesn't advocate bolting things into submission so they fall into the first category.

This post as well is hard to decipher... "hopefully this crowd goes by the mostly by the... so they fall into the first category."  ??? ??? ???

You say a route can be deemed "popular" because it gets done a lot? Ummm... that is the definition of popular I think. That's like stating a route can be deemed "obscure" because no one seeks it out.

A route is not "popular" because it is a "once in a life time thing". That, my friend, is a "rarity".

No one in this thread has advocated bolting into submission. I climbed 4 new routes at Humphrey's today that all had excessive bolts on them. 5.7 to 5.9 climbs that were over protected at 5.3 moves and under protected at 5.6 moves.

No consistency in thinking about where to place a bolt, whether from stance, hook, or rappel. Some of them are like throwing darts at a a dart board in terms of bolt placement.

My stance, which I doubt will change is this.

1) If you are putting up a new route bolt it for the grade it is under a "PG" mindset. There are enough bold R and X routes for people to test themselves on. Sit back in your rocker at 80 plus years knowing your cool route is getting done rather than gathering lichen.

2) If the FAist wants to retro-bolt their own route, let them. It was their "piece of art" and contribution, and hindsight often is better than onsight.

3) 5.12 climbers putting up new 5.10 x routes suck.

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2010, 11:42:08 PM »
..and 5.10 climbers trying to put up 5.12X climbs suck even more  ;D
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

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Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2010, 06:36:06 AM »
If your new rout is so over bolted that it feels like a top rope you fcked it up.
If it's so underbolted that no one ever climbs it then you also fucked it up.
 One thing that is certain is that if you intend to commit bolt to stone you should think it through very carefully and leave behind a climb that is a contribution to the climbing community and not an eyesore.

A single rusty bolt that never gets clipped in the middle of what should have been a 5 star route is just as much of an eysore as a dummed down overbolted botch job.

Interesting how some of the big names can screw stuff up worse than the nobodys.. Tom Rosecans stuffed a horrid squeeze job in between Little finger and Screaming meany on Rojers rock and then had the gall to rant in the guide book about how the nature of the climbs on the slab need to be preserved ::)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 07:28:15 AM by tradmanclimbz »

DLottmann

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2010, 07:22:27 AM »
I completely agree with tradman's points...

Offline OldEric

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2010, 09:06:05 AM »

A route is not "popular" because it is a "once in a life time thing". That, my friend, is a "rarity".


So I guess the Bachar - Yerian isn't patricularily popular or memorable because it doesn't have a steady stream of ascents?  Nothing to reiminsece about if you do it.  But your sanatized dumbed down so the masses can play on it "masterpiece" is surely something to be proud of?

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2010, 09:45:17 AM »
I'm not sure "dumbed down" is really a good term to use for adequately protecting routes when using fixed gear. One could readily make the argument that to bolt a route and leave huge dangerous fall potential is an act of "dumbness".
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

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Offline OldEric

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2010, 10:11:58 AM »
I'm not sure "dumbed down" is really a good term to use for adequately protecting routes when using fixed gear. One could readily make the argument that to bolt a route and leave huge dangerous fall potential is an act of "dumbness".


Well in that case I think the dumbness is more with the person who chooses to get on the route (with the huge dangerous fall potential) regardless of whether they are up to the challenge and inherent risk.

Offline frik

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2010, 10:28:08 AM »
Howabout not dumbing down the english language (i know i'll regret writing that). Yes the BY does not get alot of ascents, that makes it not popular. It may be memorable, and a great route but that has nothing to do with popularity in this case. 




Offline M_Sprague

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2010, 10:41:51 AM »
Agree. A route does not have to be popular. I do think if it is a really aesthetic line that others will want to climb, that it is a shame to hog it for your  exercise  in overcoming fear.

To Eric - Well, that is why it's nice there is room for many different aesthetic approaches to climbing. Some like the thrill of overcoming danger, like the people who get off on laying in the middle of the highway with cars whizzing by. Others like the movement, exploration and beauty of the rock, like hikers and dancers, and all the shades between. Some danger seems to heighten the senses. Personally, I like high balling for that feeling, but once I tie into a rope and start placing bolts, I like my routes to be reasonably safe.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 02:56:19 PM by M_Sprague »
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline strandman

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2010, 10:54:35 AM »
Shall we start the popular vs. quality  debate again ?

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2010, 11:11:03 AM »
vs
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2010, 11:13:37 AM »
OK,I'll go first.Hotter than Hell is a high quality,popular route.Discuss.


Nothing happened.....so I'll throw gas on the fire.....


Hotter than Hell is where the first pitch of Inferno should have been all along. Cold Day in Hell crosses some other lines that did not catch on.Cold Day in Hell is very popular.If you connect it to the Tranquility fingercrack it makes a stellar route a bit harder than Hotter than Inferno.If you want to wet your pants a little at the end of the day you can continue up the original finish bulge.


Edit for Mr Sprague: Those are both Cold Day in Hell....
Tom Stryker

DGoguen

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2010, 11:26:46 AM »
Judging by the route photos above,provided by Mark, I'd have to say the left photo is Hotter than Hell and the one on the right is Cold Day in Hell.
I can't quite make out the finger crack but I think I spy a hornets nest near the obvious bulge.

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: hornets nest on inferno and hotter than hell?
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2010, 11:37:30 AM »
"A route as a piece of art?" I don't know but they always look like a piece of rock to me.