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Author Topic: Double Ropes?  (Read 1259 times)

darwined

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Double Ropes?
« on: December 19, 2010, 10:45:14 PM »

What is the best technique for managing double ropes?  Do you make separate stacks?  Can you lap coil the two strands together? ???
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Jeff

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 01:15:48 AM »

If you are swapping leads, I find that treating the two ropes as one, lap coiling from long loops to short, works just fine (with a little care, of course).
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DLottmann

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 08:55:06 AM »

Treat them as one rope. If they are half ropes clip them separately in pro. Since drag is rarely an issue in ice climbing I would go with the skinniest of twin ropes vrs. half-ropes, but almost always prefer the simplicity of climbing ice on a skinny single (9.1-9.5).
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Jeff

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 11:42:44 AM »

As I'm a bit of a worry wart, and have had seconds half shear a rope with a misplaced ice axe swing, I prefer half or double ropes on ice, despite the slight extra care needed to avoid tangles. I agree with Dman that friction is less of a problem , unless you move so slowly that your rope freezes in place on wet sections  ;D :o  Jeff
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DLottmann

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 12:30:54 PM »

.... and have had seconds half shear a rope with a misplaced ice axe swing...

I'm a guy of probability, and I have yet to hear of a full cut from a second. Plus, the first time someone knicks their only connection to the belay self preservation instincts should kick in, but you're right 2 ropes are safer than one. Can't argue that!
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fresh

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 03:14:38 PM »

let me add one data point then, one of my friends cut the rope while seconding in o'dell's. but he was only a few feet away from the belay. and it's o'dell's, so no biggie.
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Jeff

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 11:21:59 PM »

BITD Guy Waterman cut completely through one of his 2 ropes while seconding a climb on Chapel Pond slabs, while climbing parallel to me and my partner. We were climbing with a single rope at the time-- made us think :P
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strandman

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 10:28:30 AM »

What is the best technique for managing double ropes?  Do you make separate stacks?  Can you lap coil the two strands together? ???
For ice climbing with sharp ,pointy things, Doubles may be a good idea. For most rock climbing I think doubles are a pain in the ass.

Tom C - "half ropes are half assed"

If you clip individually then you fall on a  very skinny rope and if you clip together, then why not just use a single ?
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Jeff

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 12:20:34 PM »

What is the best technique for managing double ropes?  Do you make separate stacks?  Can you lap coil the two strands together? ???
For ice climbing with sharp ,pointy things,

and ice climbing WITHOUT sharp pointy things is much MORE dangerous ;D
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:22:38 PM by Jeff »
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NY Climber

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2013, 07:49:19 AM »

Yes the more I have been ice climbing the more I have started to think of double ropes.
Ihavee always been a single rope fan - but I have recently began to see how many times i have nearly nicked the rope with my ice tool in error and/or stepped on the rope with my/or crampons - as careful as we are.

Plus, having doubles means full length raps to deck which means much faster descents, etc. I also like the idea of the additional 'safety factor' of having TWO ropes - esp on ice.
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David_G48

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 09:23:53 AM »

The main advantage to doubles is the elimination of rope drag, next would be the prevention of rope failure from severing over a sharp rock and the ability to rappel further. In ice climbing most of the rock is covered so sharp edge cuts happen with more frequency in rock climbing than ice. I have never read or seen an incident where a rope failed because it had been punctured with an ice tool. I have read studies where they tried to ruin a rope by puncturing it with an ice tool and were unable to do it. If anyone has any factual findings different than this I would love to have them post about it. Many times in climbing things are counter intuitive from what we think. An example is that placing an ice screw the hangar should be lower than the screw end (angle the ice screw up) to get a stronger placement which is the opposite of what most people use to think. This same line of thinking applies to ropes where many people think the odds are greater to slice it ice climbing versus rock climbing. Do not get me wrong 2 ropes are safer than one but are harder to manage and add weight.
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rbirk

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 12:42:19 PM »

A rope is made out of many many small strands. The probability to hit it just right with a crampon or tool and severe enough of these strands to render the rope too weak to hold weight is not very high. I would say that many times the crampon or tool may just go through in between the smaller strands.

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strandman

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 01:02:54 PM »

AH ! you are assuming that a perpendicular hit   ? angled or cross wise, a rope can easy be cut, esp under tension.
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David_G48

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 02:43:07 PM »

What the studies have found out substantiates what R Birk said.
Rope is usually under tension when some one falls or hangs on it. Under these situations they are not using their tools or crampons. Even under tension the findings have indicated that the rope fibers get pushed to the side no matter what angle the tools hit it as a rule. Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but to be practical a cross cut against the rope while it is under tension usually happens when there is a fall and the rope is extended over sharp rock.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: Double Ropes?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 06:32:35 AM »

The only real viable reason to use doubbles on ice is to facilitate 60m rappels.  Places like frankenstine, Rumny, Holts, kennel wall, flume etc. a single rope is fine.. Cannon and the Lake doubbles. If  I were to climb Hunnington roped I would go with a single strand of 1/2 rope and make good decisions to avoide needing a rapell. In fact the only rappels i have ever done in Hunnington were during rescues.
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