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Author Topic: Climber lowered off end of rope  (Read 4498 times)

DLottmann

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2011, 10:32:53 PM »

You may think you are being cleverly witty with what you think are your over the top solutions - but do you know that everything you suggested plus lots more is standard practice in many areas of the world?  Many places of the world where they climb far harder on the average than around here. This American attitude of - "we're manly self sufficient tough guys who can take care of our-selves" is all fine and good and certainly has it's place - its nice to keep alive the traditions of our sport.  I am not in favor of the universal sanitizing and dumbing down of climbing as is common now a days.  But burying your head and not keeping an open mind and not being aware of world wide trends - whether you agree with them or not - is just setting you up for failure.

I have read this 4 or 5 times and I still don't know how to respond. Cleverly witty? Over the top solutions? Burying my head and not keeping an open mind?

Your post just confuses me.
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hangdogger

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2011, 10:43:43 PM »

When did closing the system and taking care of yourself become obsolete?
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old_school

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2011, 06:12:40 AM »

Somewhere in the distance you can hear a dead horse whisper...."stop kicking me"!!!!  ::)
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Mike G

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2011, 06:44:05 AM »

Old Eric confused me also,especially when he said ice climbing was easy. Whawhawhat?
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hangdogger

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2011, 07:20:13 AM »

Adios, Mr. Deadhorse.
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old_school

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2011, 07:21:37 AM »

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OldEric

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2011, 11:24:53 AM »

You may think you are being cleverly witty with what you think are your over the top solutions - but do you know that everything you suggested plus lots more is standard practice in many areas of the world?  Many places of the world where they climb far harder on the average than around here. This American attitude of - "we're manly self sufficient tough guys who can take care of our-selves" is all fine and good and certainly has it's place - its nice to keep alive the traditions of our sport.  I am not in favor of the universal sanitizing and dumbing down of climbing as is common now a days.  But burying your head and not keeping an open mind and not being aware of world wide trends - whether you agree with them or not - is just setting you up for failure.

I have read this 4 or 5 times and I still don't know how to respond. Cleverly witty? Over the top solutions? Burying my head and not keeping an open mind?

Your post just confuses me.

I know I know I know that I should let this poor horsey rest but I want to make one more attempt to explain myself - haven't done a good job obviously and there isn't even a language barrier excuse to fall back on.

You originally said (and I am lousy at quoting - so this is just a cut and paste):

How about a little brass plaque at the base of each route stating the length of the pitch, what gear is essential to keep it a "G" rated climb, where the crux move is, and the contact info of the FA party in case you disagree with the plaque.

Sorry for the overly sarcastic response, but this is climbing. We do not need more "signs". As has been said, we need self-sufficency and responsibility.


And I concluded that you thought that the plaque suggestion was so over the top that it was obviously sarcastic (and the fact that you dragged it out with the FA stuff indicated to me that you thought you were being witty in your over the top stuff).  My point was that"

1. the plague or sign giving beta on the route is pretty common in many places (and as an aside to Rich's original suggestion that there be some convention indicating how long the rap is - that too is pretty common on many places already).
2.  that additionally to the plaque there are other conventions that are commonly used - colored hangers meaning "crux here", "routes diverge", etc.
3. in places where these things are common the level of climbing is typically higher than in N. Conway, NH.

(and as another aside - some of these things have been historically done in these pats for longer then you have been alive - route names/grades painted at the base of climbs at Crow Hill in the 50's for example).

And finally I assumed that your second sentence - the one about self responsibility - would be the typical thought pattern by most readers even if they were aware of my 3 points above.  My "burying your head" was about that.  If you are intentionally choosing not to make use of these types of conveniences - and by extension not allow them on "your" cliffs - that is fine.  It's in the same vain as Henry not using cams or the barefoot craze that repeats every 10-20 years.  It's more of a challenge , it's being true to the roots, yada yada.  Just do it knowing the pros and cons and being aware if how things are done elsewhere - not as a knee jerk reaction of the style "We don't care what those pansy grade inflating Euros do - in NH we are real men and take care of ourselves" (that was an over the top example of being sarcastic in case you didn't get it).  If you want to make N Conway (and there are many "N Conway's" across the country - slabbo has one in CO) an Amish climbing area that's fine.  My roots are there - I appreciate and respect and participate in that type of climbing all the time.  But I am also aware of trends.  So make your choices from an informed position.

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perswig

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2011, 12:43:47 PM »

So.....



plaque wars are going to be the new bolt wars?



Please advise.
Dale
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If it's overhanging, I'm probably off-route.

DGoguen

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2011, 02:18:21 PM »

Old Eric quoted "If you want to make N Conway an Amish climbing area that's fine.  My roots are there - I appreciate and respect and participate in that type of climbing all the time.  But I am also aware of trends.  So make your choices from an informed position".[/quote]

I agree. Luckily with todays modern transportation it's just a 45 min. buggy ride across the Kanc to Lincoln and a little south to exit 26 to get to Europe. It's just a choice.
It's just as important to know everything at the buffet, You don't have to put it on your plate.
I'm sure DMan is aware of whats around.


YO Old School, stop tryin ta kill my horse.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 02:26:27 PM by DGoguen »
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2011, 03:47:42 PM »

I have not read the whole thread but i did get the gist that some think it was somhow the responsibility of the rout setters to  make it  easy for  folks to lower after the climb. that is a bunch of BS inmop.  Why does everyone have to lower all the time? bunch of lazy behavior that wears out your rope.    If its too far to  rap with one rope then  use two. don't blame someone else for not figuering that out yourself...
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old_school

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2011, 04:28:33 PM »

YO Old School, stop tryin ta kill my horse.

Yo you...Amish in the house!!! I take back my horse comment..didn't know you were pimp'n your ride!  ;D
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"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

DLottmann

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2011, 07:50:12 PM »


1. the plague or sign giving beta on the route is pretty common in many places (and as an aside to Rich's original suggestion that there be some convention indicating how long the rap is - that too is pretty common on many places already).
2.  that additionally to the plaque there are other conventions that are commonly used - colored hangers meaning "crux here", "routes diverge", etc.
3. in places where these things are common the level of climbing is typically higher than in N. Conway, NH.

(and as another aside - some of these things have been historically done in these pats for longer then you have been alive - route names/grades painted at the base of climbs at Crow Hill in the 50's for example).
...
So make your choices from an informed position.

Thanks for the clarification. I think my choices are from an informed position. I hope you are right in referring to these plaques and other "commonly used conventions" as "trends". Trends are often short lived, so I hope these conveniences don't become "standard practices". Luckily I don't think most modern climbers believe spray painting names/grades of routes at the base of climbs is still an OK practice, as your Crow Hill example refers to.

There is so much grey area in climbing, and I have been on the minority side in North Conway when it comes to adding bolted anchors to climbs where I did not feel other options (gear anchors) existed (top of Bombardment).

You mention my comments about "self sufficiency" as an almost archaic idea, one to be to squashed with the desire to sterilize our experience in the name of safer climbing. Twice you've mentioned climbing harder grades may somehow add validity to the practices in other areas.

Comparing "North Conway" ethics, while somewhat passionate about "preserving an experience" to "Amish" type climbing, solidifies my opinion you and I will not see eye to eye about this issue, especially through an internet forum, so I am bowing out of this discussion going forward.

All the best, and at least we'll all save money on guidebooks in 2020.
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M_Sprague

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2011, 09:36:11 PM »

Anyone for a game of chess?
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JBrochu

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2011, 11:10:59 PM »

Anyone for a game of chess?

How about some nl hold'em?
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JBrochu

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2011, 11:14:26 PM »


1. the plague or sign giving beta on the route is pretty common in many places (and as an aside to Rich's original suggestion that there be some convention indicating how long the rap is - that too is pretty common on many places already).
2.  that additionally to the plaque there are other conventions that are commonly used - colored hangers meaning "crux here", "routes diverge", etc.
3. in places where these things are common the level of climbing is typically higher than in N. Conway, NH.

(and as another aside - some of these things have been historically done in these pats for longer then you have been alive - route names/grades painted at the base of climbs at Crow Hill in the 50's for example).
...
So make your choices from an informed position.

Thanks for the clarification. I think my choices are from an informed position. I hope you are right in referring to these plaques and other "commonly used conventions" as "trends". Trends are often short lived, so I hope these conveniences don't become "standard practices". Luckily I don't think most modern climbers believe spray painting names/grades of routes at the base of climbs is still an OK practice, as your Crow Hill example refers to.

There is so much grey area in climbing, and I have been on the minority side in North Conway when it comes to adding bolted anchors to climbs where I did not feel other options (gear anchors) existed (top of Bombardment).

You mention my comments about "self sufficiency" as an almost archaic idea, one to be to squashed with the desire to sterilize our experience in the name of safer climbing. Twice you've mentioned climbing harder grades may somehow add validity to the practices in other areas.

Comparing "North Conway" ethics, while somewhat passionate about "preserving an experience" to "Amish" type climbing, solidifies my opinion you and I will not see eye to eye about this issue, especially through an internet forum, so I am bowing out of this discussion going forward.

All the best, and at least we'll all save money on guidebooks in 2020.

+ like 1 million toward your general sentiments

edit: except why bow out of the discussion?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 11:18:47 PM by JBrochu »
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck
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