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Author Topic: Climber lowered off end of rope  (Read 3777 times)

slink

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #75 on: March 26, 2011, 02:06:22 AM »

 Plaques on routes is an absurd way to treat nature,must be a sport climber where everything is bolted. Yes in some european climbing areas they have plaques but that is an exception not the norm. I was up on Dream of wild turkeys in Red Rocks and there was a plaque with an arrow a freakin street sign 300 feet up the cliff and all I could say was WTF read the freaking guide book. 60 M is standard now and almost all guide book will say if a longer rope is needed. And really it takes 2 seconds to tie a knot in the end of a rope
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Mike G

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #76 on: March 26, 2011, 06:56:17 AM »

Dman don't go! The euro road map is bs! I'm not a bolt chopper or hard climber but if I ever get on a rout in NH where the crux is marked, let the choppin begin. If climbing hard = having the rout spelled out for you then I think the point of climbing is missed. And really, to compare the "level" of climbing to N. Conway is nuts, a lot of world class men and women have come from here.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #77 on: March 26, 2011, 07:35:24 AM »

that little piece of painted angle was bolted there when i first did dream of Wild turkeys and prince of darkness in 1986. I thought it was pretty cool at the time. We did the Turkey first as it was in the guide book. Prince of darkness wasa not in the gude but we did have a topo on a bar napkin. the sighn at the intersection of the 2 routs was kind of cool at the time and all the hangers on POD were painted black. i also recall that the hangers on yellow brick road were yellow.  Did POD again in 2004 and did not see the road sign at that intersection.  That same trip in 2004 we stopped at crawdad caynon and looked at the place. they had those little brass plaques at the base of climbs. It was a private campground/outdoor climbing gym. looked pretty cheesey so we moved on and found free camping and climbing at Prophesy Wall.
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OldEric

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2011, 10:36:28 AM »

I want to make it clear that I am not advocating for one side or the other.  I am just trying to raise awareness.  The DoWT/Yellow Brick Road "intersection sign" is a long standing example.  Likewise the hood ornament bolted on El Cap.  How about the bolt on on Big Banana at Sundown?  The signs and arrows on the rap route off of the 3rd Flat iron.  All the painting at Seneca (and Crow) from the military 60 years ago.  Cables on Half Dome and Longs Peak.  The point is that the traditional bastions of climbing aren't that pure.  If you take the time to read back in this thread the beginning of the "discussion" was triggered that there be some indication of the length of rope need to get down on some climbs.  And the majority of the responses were of the ilk - "tie knots" or "close the system".  And that strikes me as an example of a one size fits all mentality without really thinking things through.  "My Country right or wrong" or how about "Live Free or Die."  Think.  Does everyone here wear a helmut every time you climb?  If not and you ever get a head injury you know what the Monday morning QB's will say.    Or are you going to spout off some "situationally dependent" answer.  Question authority.
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strandman

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2011, 12:48:34 PM »

Will plaques be hand drilled ? Must we usestainless or will that cause a chemical reaction with a brass plaque ?  ;)

Good thing the B lack Canyon is near  so I can ride my Amish buggy over there and impose my NH ethic. If you forget a knot there , it's a LONG way down.
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sneoh

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2011, 06:59:48 PM »

I rapped L29 at Red Rocks with Eric.  We triple checked everything before each rap and we knotted the ends of the ropes (2x 60m).  One rap (from the top of P5?) was mostly free and a LONG way off the deck.
I just wish the approach/trail-in was easier to find and easier to remain on it.  I am pretty sure we got off track and hence took us forever to get to the base of L29.  Plagues to indicate the best way in and out would have been very useful! :)  
Even though the route was freed a long time ago, we brought our 60m ropes to it in 1998 (60m rope not that common yet).  Except for the not-overwhelming weight penalty over 2x 50m, we did not see any other downside.

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DMan

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #81 on: March 26, 2011, 08:34:15 PM »

I want to make it clear that I am not advocating for one side or the other.  I am just trying to raise awareness.  The DoWT/Yellow Brick Road "intersection sign" is a long standing example.  Likewise the hood ornament bolted on El Cap.  How about the bolt on on Big Banana at Sundown?  The signs and arrows on the rap route off of the 3rd Flat iron.  All the painting at Seneca (and Crow) from the military 60 years ago.  Cables on Half Dome and Longs Peak.  The point is that the traditional bastions of climbing aren't that pure.  If you take the time to read back in this thread the beginning of the "discussion" was triggered that there be some indication of the length of rope need to get down on some climbs.  And the majority of the responses were of the ilk - "tie knots" or "close the system".  And that strikes me as an example of a one size fits all mentality without really thinking things through.  "My Country right or wrong" or how about "Live Free or Die."  Think.  Does everyone here wear a helmut every time you climb?  If not and you ever get a head injury you know what the Monday morning QB's will say.    Or are you going to spout off some "situationally dependent" answer.  Question authority.

Dragged back in.

Me, raising awareness = close the system.... oh, and wear a helmet...

<leaves thread again>

Sorry, spending all my time trying to understand today's paper...
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JBrochu

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #82 on: March 26, 2011, 11:02:48 PM »

Think.  Does everyone here wear a helmut every time you climb?  If not and you ever get a head injury you know what the Monday morning QB's will say.    Or are you going to spout off some "situationally dependent" answer.  Question authority.


If I choose not to wear a helmut and suffer a head injury, hopefully I would realize it was my choice and my fault and not make a blog that seemingly insuates otherwise.

Most of the Monday morning QB'ing in the thread is not because they didn't close the system, it's because of the blog comments about the route setters and the message it sends.

Rejecting a complex solution that requires community "hand holding" and rules in favor of a simple solution that relies on personal responsibility is not closing your mind.



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MAmedic

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2011, 07:37:44 PM »

I rapped L29 at Red Rocks with Eric.  We triple checked everything before each rap and we knotted the ends of the ropes (2x 60m).  One rap (from the top of P5?) was mostly free and a LONG way off the deck.
I just wish the approach/trail-in was easier to find and easier to remain on it.  I am pretty sure we got off track and hence took us forever to get to the base of L29.  Plagues to indicate the best way in and out would have been very useful! :)  
Even though the route was freed a long time ago, we brought our 60m ropes to it in 1998 (60m rope not that common yet).  Except for the not-overwhelming weight penalty over 2x 50m, we did not see any other downside.



You got lost in the woods looking for a five pitch rock climb?! How tall were the trees dude?

Im glad you climbed safe and closed your system but bolting signs to rock or trees only helps one that cant be bothered to take responsibility.  What ever happened to adventure in the woods? Is climbing now so grade and achievement focused that climbers can"t be bothered to take responsibility to be safe?  One can climb hard routes, thats great.  But if you dont know how to do it safely from the time you leave your house until the time you get back what is the point?
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Nick D

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2011, 08:46:16 PM »

Oh great! Now look what you've done.
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old_school

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2011, 08:47:51 PM »

Oh great! Now look what you've done.


See? See?  That guy waiting in the background is coming over to kick it!  ;)
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sneoh

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2011, 09:04:03 PM »

You got lost in the woods looking for a five pitch rock climb?! How tall were the trees dude?

Oh, L29 to the top is more pitches.  Nine in total I think.  Almost all parties rap after P5, P6, or P7.  P5 is the crux pitch.
Actually, it has a well-deserved reputation of being hard to find.  Too much detail to go in here.  We took 3++ hours of hiking along a dry river bed, bushwhacking, and steep scrambling to get to the base of the climb.  We stopped at the rock shop the next day to inquire and they had a good laugh.  We were told that our experience is not uncommon at all.  Even knowing the short way in will take 2/2+ hours.  A good number of parties hike in 2+ hours the previous evening to bivy and then do the last bit of hiking after first light.  If I ever want to go in again (not for L29, which is too hard for me now but Eagle Dance next to it), I might do the same (bivy the previous night). I was exhausted by the time we got to the base of L29 that day.
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OldEric

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2011, 09:54:52 PM »

Oh great! Now look what you've done.


Like the hydra - for every head you chop 7 more will appear,
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strandman

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2011, 09:26:50 AM »

I'm looking for the photo of Mongo punching the horse in Blazing Saddles !
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Jeff

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Re: Climber lowered off end of rope
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2011, 01:41:00 PM »

John-- thanks for reminding me of that scene-- LMAO again thinking of it!
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