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[frik]

Maybe it'd be ok to steal some official forest service "no crapping here" signs from someplace else. They probably have 'em posted all over the great gulf wilderness. - problem solved.

[Dave]

You mean we can't put up signes that say " Hey Frenchies, stop shitting all over the place!"  with graphic drawings? LOL.

What ever happened to the idea that the RCA has an area on the kiosks for pertanant climbing information? It seems like that has been kind of pushed aside. We don't have any space at the small parking lot. I'm not sure what is still at the big one since I last saw it, but it seemed to be dwindling. The place is becoming completely sterile (except crap) and like a rest stop as I mentioned before since the FS has become more active. It's going to have no soul left.

According to her under fedreal law nobody can post anything legally including the RCA unless it meets federal guidelines and is approved by the USFS. Does that surprise you? Just more BS from our federal government!

Justin will be contacting me about signs Mark. I think you know him. Dave

[sarahw]

There seems to be a general assumption that many of the people pooping and leaving their TP all over the place are simply uneducated in LNT practices.  However, many of the "newer to the outdoors" women that I've climbed with are actually really uncomfortable with the idea of pooping (and even peeing) in the woods, and would much rather hold it or walk back to the parking lot.  At first I assumed that it was this gym climber demographic (not hiker turned climber) that must be responsible for the poop piles, but so many women don't want to poop in the woods anyway.  Of course, we know who is responsible for the little squares of TP on the ground...

I at least try to educate people within my group with the proper practices (which often comes up because wearing a harness and looking at tall things typically sends me into the woods), and sometimes I resort to passive aggressive means if I suspect a fellow climber.   I say something like "Eww, I just saw some TP on the ground that someone left. Who does that! At least bury it, if you must use it!"  Maybe shame will have some effect

[punxnotdead]

LOL. I read the title thinking it was a name of a new "very" hard route at rumney.  LOL

yeah, poop bad a very busy places.

[strandman]

I might be missing something but.... take shit in a shitter...  or cover it up/ bury ? Is that so tough ?

I got some climbs that people will have shit BEFORE the climb... maybe better ?

[Dave]

I might be missing something but.... take shit in a shitter...  or cover it up/ bury ? Is that so tough ?

I got some climbs that people will have shit BEFORE the climb... maybe better ?

John, A few years ago I did a route put up by you and Tom Callahan and almost shit myself in the middle of the route!

[sneoh]

There seems to be a general assumption that many of the people pooping and leaving their TP all over the place are simply uneducated in LNT practices.  However, many of the "newer to the outdoors" women that I've climbed with are actually really uncomfortable with the idea of pooping (and even peeing) in the woods, and would much rather hold it or walk back to the parking lot.  At first I assumed that it was this gym climber demographic (not hiker turned climber) that must be responsible for the poop piles, but so many women don't want to poop in the woods anyway.  Of course, we know who is responsible for the little squares of TP on the ground...

I at least try to educate people within my group with the proper practices (which often comes up because wearing a harness and looking at tall things typically sends me into the woods), and sometimes I resort to passive aggressive means if I suspect a fellow climber.   I say something like "Eww, I just saw some TP on the ground that someone left. Who does that! At least bury it, if you must use it!"  Maybe shame will have some effect

I think Sarah is correct about folks newer to the outdoors being uncomfortable about relieving themselves in the woods.  That was the case with my wife when we hiked quite a bit in the Northeast several years back.  She used to 'go' at the last possible toilet and then hold it till we were back at it again after the hike.  Keep up the good work, Sarah!

[ed_esmond]

You mean we can't put up signes that say " Hey Frenchies, stop shitting all over the place!"  with graphic drawings? LOL.

What ever happened to the idea that the RCA has an area on the kiosks for pertanant climbing information? It seems like that has been kind of pushed aside. We don't have any space at the small parking lot. I'm not sure what is still at the big one since I last saw it, but it seemed to be dwindling. The place is becoming completely sterile (except crap) and like a rest stop as I mentioned before since the FS has become more active. It's going to have no soul left.

According to her under fedreal law nobody can post anything legally including the RCA unless it meets federal guidelines and is approved by the USFS. Does that surprise you? Just more BS from our federal government!

Justin will be contacting me about signs Mark. I think you know him. Dave

i'm not surprised the usfs  wants to control signs posted on property that they legally control...

put yourself in their position.  if you were legally responsible for an area, would you allow every individual with an agenda to cover the area with signage promoting their personal opinions?  i don't think so...

it's a shame that people need reminders how to poop in the woods, but apparently they do.  and perhaps a couple of informal signs would have done the trick.

but instead, you involved the usfs and you are now pissed that they want to follow their rules on land that they control.

if you had really cared, you could have just printed up a bunch of signs as suggested by mark (personally, i like "zut alors!  queebs et queebettes, ne poop-a-vue pas ici...") and put them up without telling the forest service.  by the time the usfs would have gotten around to taking them down, your message would have been spread.

that's called "actually doing something...."

geting pissed at a summit volunteer or a bureaucrat on the phone  or spewing on the internet is not "actually doing something."

respectfully,

ed e

ps in another thread there was some mention of the new trail work at rumney.  immediately after the work was completed, i heard a number of very vocal critics.  i found this ironic, as the people who i heard complaing the most were people i never, ever actually seen do any trail work themselves.... 

i guess it's the old adage, "those who can, do; and those who can't, complain about those who do..."

[JBrochu]

I love how it's acceptable to rant about shit in the woods - which will eventually biodegrade anyway - but ranting about the AMC doing permanent damage in the name of convenience gets so many panties in a twist.

[M_Sprague]

Well, leaving crap next to the trail and crag is the result of sheer slothfulness. Those step that you are freaking out about are an attempt to improve a situation, whether you agree with them or not. Personally, I think freaking out about a few cut steps and shrieking "permanent damage" is about like the people who shriek the same about a couple of bolt holes for an anchor on a popular route instead of having people rappelling off a tree and killing it. I don't find a few well done cut steps particularly ugly, though they can be a little jarring when first done and showing fresh rock. Paving paths or something, yeah, I would be shrieking along with you, but a few steps, come on! Defectives I tell ya.

[JBrochu]

Nice use of hyperbole but good job finding a post in that thread where I "freaked out" or "shrieked" about anything. Did you even read my posts in the thread? [edit: except for my comment about telling the summit host to punch his clown, lolz... I forgot about that post.  ]

And I called the cut steps permanent damage because that's exactly what they are -- particularly when they cannot be justified for erosion control.

[Dave]

if you had really cared, you could have just printed up a bunch of signs as suggested by mark (personally, i like "zut alors!  queebs et queebettes, ne poop-a-vue pas ici...") and put them up without telling the forest service.  by the time the usfs would have gotten around to taking them down, your message would have been spread.

that's called "actually doing something...."


respectfully,

ed e

I was at Rumney Monday when I got a call from the USFS. There are going to be permanent signs going up about the disposal of Human waste. I received a PDF of the proposed sign this morning seeking my comments before they are made. It is excellent and my only suggestion to the USFS is that it be printed in both English and French. I was told there will soon be a new kiosk placed at the new parking lot and there will be a sign there as well as the kiosk at the main parking lot. There will also be a sign placed at the Bonsai/Wiamea trail intersection. Now I just hope that the people dumb enough to be shitting at the base of a crag are smart enough to even be able to read the signs!

Ed,
I decided to wait and respond to your post because of some things I had going on with the USFS. I did actually get the job done the right way. I really do care and that is why I went through the proper channels. Why piss of the USFS by breaking the rules when doing it the right way gets a permanent sign much nicer than anything you or I could make. You should be more carefull before making snide remarks.

[sneoh]

I was at Rumney Monday when I got a call from the USFS. There are going to be permanent signs going up about the disposal of Human waste. I received a PDF of the proposed sign this morning seeking my comments before they are made. It is excellent and my only suggestion to the USFS is that it be printed in both English and French. I was told there will soon be a new kiosk placed at the new parking lot and there will be a sign there as well as the kiosk at the main parking lot. There will also be a sign placed at the Bonsai/Wiamea trail intersection. Now I just hope that the people dumb enough to be shitting at the base of a crag are smart enough to even be able to read the signs!

Excellent.  Thanks for marshalling this process along so quickly, Dave!

[frik]

Great - now the price for a WMNF day pass will double.
 

[strandman]

It kinda reminds me about the recent deaths on Half Dome---60% chance of rain and still people went up. "If it was dangerous they would have told us"

Telling people not to shit at the crag ?

Maybe they will all die