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[lucky luke]

As they begin,  a lot of new trad climber climb 5.6 5.7 route or the classic like bombardment. But I went to sugar loaf and the cliff had only two party. Mt washington is the same, few party. On the other side, we have 5.10 or 5.11 climber which do route like in sport. Place a pro, rest, find the movement and do the route. I saw one of them rappeling on the route to see where to place the pro and where is the hold to make there first ascent onsight the week after.

I agree that a bunch of new trad climber really want to climb and they must begin in easy stuff, but where is the 5.8 to 5.10 climber. With the rating of sport, a beginer begin at 5.8. Is it true in trad climbing? remission is only 5.8...stressfull, but a great lead for an experience climber of trad. Falling aspiration!!!! when did you see some people in it? It is not as broken as consolation prize, that saw there four of fifth pitch hard to climb and protect because of a four or five year rock fall. FM in poko is also a gem, for a trad climber.

I have the impression that the climber most climb easy route or they most climb hard to be a trad climber. Are we so humiliating by sport climber to be afraid of saying that we climb in the range 5.8 to 5.10? that we are intermediate or advance climber? (I am an advance climber and proud to climb trad at my limit)

[tradmanclimbz]

If you looking for 5.8 trad climbers look no further than WG and  moby grape. if you want 5.9 they can be found on Union jack and vertigo. if 5.10 is you game que up @ duet direct. last time i was at cannon all these climbs had partys on them VMC direct direct as well.  last summer I was @ cathedral a bunch and there were folks on   all those grades so i guess i don't know WTF you are talking about

[strandman]

TONS of 5.8-5.10 on most NE crags. Cathedral perhaps having the least of any major crag...

I have said it before.. I don't see any correlation between sport and trad grades. It's apples and oranges. "Cause you climb 5.10 trad doesn't mean you can climb 5..11 sport, it just doesn't. " Cause you climb 5.12 sport doesn't mean you can fire Airation

[sneoh]

Cathedral perhaps having the least of any major crag...

Agree with this, it could partially explain Champ's question.

Cause you climb 5.12 sport doesn't mean you can fire Airation

Very true!

[strandman]

Cathedral- think about how many quality 5.8- 5.10 climbs.... a dozen  ?

[sneoh]

Oh, John, you're really harsh!   I think a bit more than one dozen.  More over at WH? 
Perhaps we should put together a list to "help" folks out.

[strandman]

L-R
Nutcracker
Bombardment
Book
Black Lung
Recompense
Saigon
Pine Tree
Windfall
Intimidation
Diedre
Slot
They Died

looks like a dozen- what did I miss ?

[Jeff]

Without opening the guidebook, just on the Thin Air wall, DMZ, Thinner, Turner Flake, Rapid Transit, Repulsion & Missing Link come immediately to mind, John!

[frik]

OK Champ, you caught 'em, now you need to play them. Cleaning and gutting come later.

[lucky luke]

L-R
Nutcracker            as I said, classic...a straight forward crack with pro like in sport       Bombardment        the same
Book                     first pitch is close to sport with all that pine. harder to take a wipper than to climb it, one move on second pitch    Black Lung            same as nut...           Recompense          classic of the classic... who did the chimney and gypsi just in the right, como finish, etc          Saigon                   sport route
Pine Tree               you can sew the crack                  Windfall                 bolt, scary 5.10, most party top rope it           intimidation           nice, but a small number,just open after the peregrine, if you saw more than three party going to the top since the 27 july             Diedre                   nice, but a small number
Slot                     
They Died           you can sew the crack
looks like a dozen- what did I miss ?
remission, gypsi, toe crack (a classic), repulsion, thinner, turner, standard, at the left of the practice slab, the roof (5., pooh, refuse, and I didn't use my book...diagonal never did that one...scare me. A handfull of classic done by a handfull of climber who bring many party in it. We don't have a bunch of 5.8 climber who try to climb all 5.8 before doing the 5.9. we don't have a bunch of climber trying to climb as much 5.9 as possible before climbing 5.10 and there is no many climber who just like to climb 5.8 because it is fun and who try different site and route.
what is the future of trad?

[kenreville]

L-R
Nutcracker            as I said, classic...a straight forward crack with pro like in sport       Bombardment        the same
Book                     first pitch is close to sport with all that pine. harder to take a wipper than to climb it, one move on second pitch    Black Lung            same as nut...           Recompense          classic of the classic... who did the chimney and gypsi just in the right, como finish, etc          Saigon                   sport route
Pine Tree               you can sew the crack                  Windfall                 bolt, scary 5.10, most party top rope it           intimidation           nice, but a small number,just open after the peregrine, if you saw more than three party going to the top since the 27 july             Diedre                   nice, but a small number
Slot                     
They Died           you can sew the crack
looks like a dozen- what did I miss ?
remission, gypsi, toe crack (a classic), repulsion, thinner, turner, standard, at the left of the practice slab, the roof (5., pooh, refuse, and I didn't use my book...diagonal never did that one...scare me. A handfull of classic done by a handfull of climber who bring many party in it. We don't have a bunch of 5.8 climber who try to climb all 5.8 before doing the 5.9. we don't have a bunch of climber trying to climb as much 5.9 as possible before climbing 5.10 and there is no many climber who just like to climb 5.8 because it is fun and who try different site and route.
what is the future of trad?

I still have NO idea what point/issue/problem/point of view you're trying to make/take/purvey.

[HangingChad]

I'm confused.  Are you implying that because some of those routes can be sewn up with gear, they are less of a trad climb?

I prefer to just climb rocks, I'll clip the bolt if its there, and if its not then place gear.  Easy enough.  Maybe the future of trad is that it will blend and mesh with all other forms of climbing, and we can all stop being concerned with what kind of climber we are.

[DMan]

...we can all stop being concerned with what kind of climber we are.

I have a feeling someone here will have a hard time not philosophizing about the differences between trad and sport.... *cough*champ*cough*

[sneoh]

It just looks like me that Champ considers certain lines not to be real "trad"

Nutcracker            as I said, classic...a straight forward crack with pro like in sport       Bombardment        the same
Book                     first pitch is close to sport with all that pine. harder to take a wipper than to climb it, one move on second pitch   

so even though many parties climb Nutcracker and The Book over the span of a weekend, he continues to ask why there isn't more "true" 5.8 to 5.10 climbers out there ....

[little lil]

I prob  shouldn't ask but here I go anyways:
What's the difference between a fake and a true 5.8-10 climber?