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Author Topic: new old rope  (Read 2153 times)

michael

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new old rope
« on: August 07, 2011, 02:02:20 PM »

i have a brand new 10.2 maxim climbing rope   still coiled and wrapped in the original bag      has been stored in a cool closet    but it is 10 years old    what can i do with it     lead    top rope    or cut down trees with it    thanks for your help
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sneoh

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 06:51:36 PM »

Assuming the cool closet does not have anything funky chemicals in it, I *think* it should be OK to use as a TR or even a lead rope in a gym (where fall factors are usually quite low).  But, as always, use your best judgement.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

bennybrew

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 07:03:30 PM »

email maxim and ask them.

and please post their reply here.
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DLottmann

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 11:08:50 PM »

...or even a lead rope in a gym (where fall factors are usually quite low)....

Iím sure this rope probably would be fine for what youíve suggested but I would disagree that gym lead falls are ďusually quite lowĒ fall factor-wise. While bolts are usually closely spaced in a gym, you usually only have 30-40 feet of rope out, which means higher fall factors for your average 5-10 foot sport falls.  Combined with Gri-Gris and static ground anchors, gym climbing is much harder on ropes that trad climbing...

If it was me a 10 year old rope would be TR only... and Iíll tell you right now Maxim will say retire it... every manufacturer I know says 7 years MAX... but as I said Iíd still TR on it...
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sneoh

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 11:57:31 PM »

DMan, you are correct.  I was mistaken.  My friends and I all weigh about the same so we do not anchor in and our catches are usually quite soft in the gym.  But this is probably more the exception than the norm.  Thanks for setting me straight.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

strandman

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 09:59:01 AM »

Well it is a Maxim.. ;)  A mammut i would trust for tr for sure.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 06:29:45 AM »

Stored properly it is perfectly fine. I bet we all have slings and slung cams that we use for lead climbing every day with slings more than 10years old that have been used most of that time instead of stored in a dry clean closet......
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Jeff

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »

In my position as the U.S. (American Alpine Club) delegate to the UIAA Safety Commission from 1978-1999, it was made quite clear that the nylons in ropes, slings and harnesses gradually age and deteriorate, even if correctly stored. UIAA tests were done by European labs for Pit Schubert, the German delegate, and eventual President of the Commission, on used and unused ropes which had been stored for different lengths of time. According to my memory, at the time (in the 90s), a 10 year old UNUSED rope which had been properly stored and never uncoiled, held a single UIAA fall in the test. Other ropes, even one which had been only slightly used and had never suffered a serious fall, after such long storage, did not hold even one UIAA fall in the test. MY CONCLUSION (I'm pretty careful about what ropes I'll climb on) after seeing the results of these tests, has been to respect the manufacturers' recommendations and retire ropes regularly after 3-5 years MAX. I also keep very accurate regular rope logs re: hours of exposure, numbers of falls (if any), and I regularly carefully examine my cords for any apparent damage. I definitely replace my slings at least every 3 years. Having said all that, I would probably personally use the "new" 10 year old rope for top-roping only. I would definitely cut it into a length suitable for top roping on some of our shorter crags ( 100+ feet for example) so that its use couldn't be mistaken. Call me TOO careful if you wish, but I'm still here after more than 4 decades of active climbing and hope to continue for at least a couple more ;).

On another note, if you are actively using slings and other nylon sewn gear which is over 10 years old, my recommendation would be to loosen the purse strings a bit and replace them! Compare the expense to the price of neuro-surgery today :P  Just my opinion, of course. Jeff Lea
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sneoh

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 04:45:06 PM »

Thanks for your informative post, Jeff.
I, for one, do not think you are being TOO careful.  You should do what you feel is right.  

I replace my lead rope every 3 to 4 years and my slings (incl dogbones) about every 5 years.  Just got a bunch of new nylon ones for $4 each (cheap compared to a rope).
I am also very careful about biners (esp on fixed/perma draws) these days; much more so after the rope-slicing incident down at RRG.
This is one danger in sport climbing that would be rare in trad.  :):)
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

tradmanclimbz

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 05:19:48 PM »

I just pulled a 60ft tall  birch tree about 15in in  diamater up over a  steep bank with a rope i retired 8 years ago. the butt end of that log got hung up and jammed. I streatched that rope untill the thing was micro seconds away from breaking, pushed in the clutch and it bunjeed my F150 back up the driveway.  I have a hard time believeing  that rope would have failed in any normal climbing situation that did not involve a sharp edge that would have sliced a new  or old rope...
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DLottmann

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 10:20:32 PM »

I just pulled a 60ft tall  birch tree about 15in in  diamater up over a  steep bank with a rope i retired 8 years ago. the butt end of that log got hung up and jammed. I streatched that rope untill the thing was micro seconds away from breaking, pushed in the clutch and it bunjeed my F150 back up the driveway.  I have a hard time believeing  that rope would have failed in any normal climbing situation that did not involve a sharp edge that would have sliced a new  or old rope...

I gotta agree... Iíve also seen tests on bleached white nylon slings holding over 1000lbs. I still back up anything questionable, but climbing gear has a ton of redundancy and over engineering built into it. The forces involved in top-roping are such a small fraction of what these ropes are designed to handle I canít see a problem.

That said, do what makes YOU feel safe. Iíve added binerís to rap stations because for some reason I was nervous about a link. I also replace slings on a 3-4 year schedule... same as lead ropes...
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Jeff

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 12:55:10 AM »

I just pulled a 60ft tall  birch tree about 15in in  diamater up over a  steep bank with a rope i retired 8 years ago. the butt end of that log got hung up and jammed. I streatched that rope untill the thing was micro seconds away from breaking, pushed in the clutch and it bunjeed my F150 back up the driveway.  I have a hard time believeing  that rope would have failed in any normal climbing situation that did not involve a sharp edge that would have sliced a new  or old rope...

I've done the same thing pulling stumps with my F150 van-- I even broke the rope in the interior of the double bowline knot (no surprise that it broke at the knot)-- In your case, as in mine the force was applied slowly-- the dynamics of a lead fall are different; if I'm the leader, I don't want to find out at the end of my fall that I was wrong about the number of falls the rope would withstand! Therefore, knowing what the tests showed about old ropes 15 + years ago, I wouldn't lead on the 10 year old rope in question,  but I would happily top rope on it---just my opinion, but based on a different rope test than pulling logs or stumps-- in that sport, my ass isn't on the line!
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strandman

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 10:01:51 AM »

I pulled down a log entry arch to a ranch the other day with an old Beal 11mm that is close to 25 yearss old, worked good.

I agree with D though, now matter what, if you don't feel safe, toss it.

I use a 10 year old mammut for tr all the time, but it's in great shape with no dings and stored well.
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pitonpat

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2011, 03:19:07 PM »

Okay.  Let's continue the post with RETIRED rope stories.........  I still regularly use my old Edelrid 11mm rope (purchased in the fall of 1970) for tree work.  By the way Tradman- lots of laps at Deer Leap on this rope!   I have often tied it high in a tree which leaned away from the direction in which I wanted it to fall, re-directed the rope around another tree trunk base, and stretched it like a banjo string using my F250 pickup.  No damage to sheath or core.  I can't imagine coming close to that kind of stretch in a normal climbing situation.   I also use my old Goldline 7/16" laid (twisted) rope for stump pulling- again, no damage- although the knots are a bitch to undo afterwards!

I realize the scientific minded among you will inform us about the difference between climbing & work situations, but, I find it amazing that the rope(s) still hold up to this abuse after so long-  the Goldline is from the mid-60's by the way, and the Edelrid rope was well used prior to retirement. 
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: new old rope
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 05:54:43 PM »

My thoughts are that if you generate enough impact to  break an old rope that has no visible coreshots or dead spots then you most likly will have some consequences to deal with that a new rope may not be able to deal with any better than the old rope.
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