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[strandman]

Here's my definition;

r  your gonna get hurt, the length of fall doesn't matter

x- you don't walk away, you may not die but,,,,

[old_school]

Here's my definition;

r  your gonna get hurt, the length of fall doesn't matter

x- you don't walk away, you may not die but,,,,

Pretty much sums it up in my opinion...

[DGoguen]

Here's my definition;

r  your gonna get hurt, the length of fall doesn't matter

x- you don't walk away, you may not die but,,,,

It really is that simple.
R for me is R for you once we pitch off.
Magic redirected leader fall ropework explanation to follow, I'm sure.

[strandman]

Maybe some examples will help-

Be Sharp Or B Flat at cathedral is X , your semi-living carcass will roll off the ledge you just hit and then to the ground

Western Lady with the direct finish is R, though the fall is pretty clean, you need a pretty good belayer to escape some kind of injury

[DGoguen]

Be Sharp Or B Flat at cathedral is X , your semi-living carcass will roll off the ledge you just hit and then to the ground

Much to the utter horror of the 9 people toproping "They Died Laughing" as you roll past. "Hey wasn't that John Strand"?
"Yeah and it looked like he was giving us the finger".

[strandman]

Gotta stick up for what you beleive----B Sharp hashad acouple of repeats this year-- so much for the "if it doesn't get done bullshit"

Why doesn't any one do Unforgettable Fire ?? A real classic and  good gear ??




I did give the finger to the Prow crowd when I fell off Clean Sweep- 45' and breaking  some ribs-- but the chicks were another story................

[pappy]

I read the first page of this thread, then decided to offer a possibly interesting perspective. Forgive me if I have gone through this before, but I am old and forgetful.

Back in '95 ML, Doc, and I did an ice FA on Cow Rock in NC that as far as I know has never seen a second. Probably because it fell down about 60 min later and nearly killed us. It's not everyone that nearly gets killed in an avalanche in NC. We named it Graphic Violence, which may also deter repeats.

Anyway, we then moved around the cliff and found a chest clutching virgin rock line. Came back a month later, and when Doc and I got to the top of P3 we figured the route was basically done. There was still 150' of cliff left, but it looked like the typical 5.6 dome.

Ooops.

Doc didn't even want to mess with the trivial stuff, so started another FA to the right (Deuces Wild). ML and I went up to finish off the first route and led off the last pitch, and I was evidently climbing like sh!t. It felt really hard for 5.6. After mantling into a move that I realized half way through would blow the belay and send us both to the ground, I got into a water groove. I still remember swearing at myself for being such a weeny on easy ground. Got a tipped out #2 TCU in up higher before finding a thank God flake 30' above it. I was still pissed that I had been such a weeny, and happy to get gear in.

The mantle is now concensus .10c/d. The groove above, .10a/RR+. The commitment grade is completely due to ignorance on the FA, I would have drilled if I didn't think I would be abused for being a weeny for drilling on such 'easy' ground. Skyhedral is now considered one of the classic climbs of NC. I still get calls every couple of years from people who want permission to put a bolt on that groove (a friend of mine put in a two bolt belay to safeguard the belay without asking me, and I briefly thought of chopping that, but, screw it), but the feedback I get from most is that the spice at the end 400' off the deck moves the climb from classic to 'Top 10'. My attitude is, I did it on sight, you can too knowing it goes. No retro, and I will make a special trip to chop any retros.

That's climbing.

Pappy

[lucky luke]

but the feedback I get from most is that the spice at the end 400' off the deck moves the climb from classic to 'Top 10'. My attitude is, I did it on sight, you can too knowing it goes. No retro, and I will make a special trip to chop any retros.

That's climbing.
Pappy

I will probably have hard time on it if I try it,

but that's climbing.

[Jeff]

"I will probably have hard time on it if I try it,

but that's climbing. "       Champ, I LIKE IT!!!  Best yet!

[strandman]

I have a hard time on things even when i don't try....

Climbing in NC is like NH BITD-- hard , runout shit on great rock

Try cashier's area for some crazy stuff

[strandman]

Just when i thought this was going away.. a , slimey, no nut POS mails me some shit about  "why don't you do routes that people can repeat???" BS

"You can repeat anything , if your good enough "  I thought a pretty civilized response.. from me anyway

"I climb 5.13 and you 5.11's are too run out"

"Guess you don't climb 5.11 then

[pappy]

I have a hard time on things even when i don't try....

Climbing in NC is like NH BITD-- hard , runout shit on great rock

Try cashier's area for some crazy stuff

Yeah, Cow Rock is in Cashier's, it's the 'smaller' cliff to the right of Laurel Knob, which (sorry Yankees) is the tallest cliff east of the Miss. Cannon ain't even in the running. Does have better ice though. Although every ten years or so a Valhalla like line forms up the wall of Laurel Canyon to the left that I don't think has ever been sent, though there is a lonely fixed nut in a horizontal about 80' up a vertical blank wall where it forms, which just puzzles the crap out of the locals who think ice is for chilling PBR and moonshine.