Author Topic: the crampon conundrum  (Read 3263 times)

Offline Admin Al

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the crampon conundrum
« on: January 25, 2012, 07:52:43 PM »
so I've got 2 pair of Petzl M10 crampons. I've been using them for years and really feel that they are an excellent all around crampon. I use 'em as dual points and feel that I can climb anything up to really hard mixed stuff. I know there are other crampons out there, but I haven't felt a need to change for the past 6 years. kind of like me sticking with my original Ergo's!

my front points have finally reached the point where I can't sharpen them any more. Petzl is asking/demanding $80 for 2 new front points, and obviously that isn't something that I can get behind. no, let's tell it like it is - IT SUCKS!!! so I decided this would be the year I would get new crampons. I originally just figured I would buy another pair of M10's. WOOPS...Petzl discontinued the. in favor of their new latest & greatest, the Lynk.

 http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/ice-climbing-crampons/lynx

I wasn't too psyched, but after looking around I thought that these might be close to my M10 and could be a good fit for me. I know, I know... why would I buy more crampons from a company that's screwing with us all about the M10 front points, but they actually do look nice. So I trucked down to my friendly local climbing shop, where YES I get a bit of a pro deal 'cause I work for them, but low & behold they didn't have any!!!  :P and poking around on the web apparently nobody has 'em! so I ask what's up with that? turns out that they "have had manufacturing problems" and couldn't manufacture them in any quantity. does this remind you at all of last year's issue with the Nomic's and Ergo's? can you spell F R U S T R A T E D? [sigh]

so, here's my question? what are you folks using? I climb a fair amount of 4's & 5's and some amount of mixed stuff. I need a really rigid dual point crampon with aggressive secondary points. what do you think I should try? I've heard good things about the Grivel G14 and some folks who like the BD Cyborg Pro. what do you think?

thnx...
Al Hospers
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DLottmann

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 09:16:40 PM »
Black Diamond Cyborg Pro is the closest you can get to the old M10ís in terms of aggressive dual front point crampons. Itís what I am currently using and I think it is slightly better than the M10ís because it is a little less ďcookie cutterĒ in cohesive snow and the included anti-bot plates work really well. I think they might be a hair lighter to. You should try them out. Iíll lend you mine if you want to test them for a few days... Actually mine might be the old version, but still...

On a related note, just got my new pair of Quarks yesterday. Canít wait to try them. First thing I did though was remove the included trigger rest. Donít like those, then wrapped them up with some nice red electric tape... wonít confuse these with anyone elseís!

« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:19:02 PM by DMan »

Offline meclimber

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 05:37:48 AM »
I felt that my g-14's even after i adjusted the toe bail didn't give me enough front point clearance beyond the end of my boots and for that reason never liked them on steeper ice.  I am now using the grivel Rambo comp 4 which are great but I think they may only be monopoint.  But really a great super stiff aggressive crampon.
Jon Howard

Offline JChepes

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 07:14:14 AM »
Have had little problems with my cyborgs and feel they are a great product.  The only issue I
have is in their weight and bulkiness.  They seem a little much for my 9.5 scarpas.  For my next
pair I will probably go with something a bit more streamlined.
As far as Petzl wanting $80 for the M10 frontpoints that's enough to turn me off from their product.
What's up with that? Does that mean $160 to replace all your points? 

Offline Admin Al

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 09:21:14 AM »
As far as Petzl wanting $80 for the M10 frontpoints that's enough to turn me off from their product.
What's up with that? Does that mean $160 to replace all your points? 

yes, that is correct! clearly they do not want people to replace front points...
Al Hospers
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Offline neiceclimber

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 12:38:24 PM »
I've been using the Cyborgs ever since the Petzl Sarkens were recalled and have been very happy with them. I've used them on a variety of boots from Koflach to La Sportiva and they always seem to fit well with only a few minor adjustments. If you switch boots frequently, remember to be extremely anal about them being tight, I've had them pop off a few times after switching(but I suppose this is true for all crampons). I've used them from glacier plodding to ridge top spring scrambles to steep mixed. The anti bots work just about as well as any other crampons I've seen people using.  I've never noticed them being bulky or heavy and they certainly never slowed me down getting to a climb.

Just recently upgraded from the yellow cyborgs to the stainless, and have switched the yellow's to mono. It's a pain to do so and I doubt anyone frequently swaps from dual to mono, but maybe they just know a few tricks.

I thought about the Lynx as a replacement given all the hype, but then couldn't find them anywhere. So to me that meant that only industry people are writting reviews and creating a buzz and I rarely trust that review style. So, I decided to go with the tried and true.

Offline ELM

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 05:47:04 PM »
Another Cyborg user here. I have the older version won't switch over to the stainless...too many breakage issues. They are heavy and I have once activated the sizing bar, in the bag I think, once causing them to fall off: my fault not theirs. I have run them both mono and dual and the switch over takes some work the first time but not bad after you get the bott's cut.
Ed Matt
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Offline old_school

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 05:57:55 AM »
Al,

I am using the Petzl Lynx currently and really like them. I was leary at first given the recent track record or Petzl (manufacturing and product design) but decided to take the risk as my research into these new crampons seemed to indicate that they had taken the good qualities of the Vasak and the Dart/dartwin and merged them. The risk was worth it. The Lynx are a great crampon. I picked them up early and didn't realize that they were having production problems yet again...<sigh>. These crampons aren't cheap, but well worth the money IMHO. They use the same points as the Dartwins and easily swap out duals for monos...(did mine in about 1 minute). They also have the ability to be used with non-welted boots....a chameleon of sorts which I really like. typically, these hybrid type of crampons don't excel in any one particular form of climbing, but not true with this pair. The adjust easily, are lightweight, slide down for easy pack-ability, and have the antibots that work remarkably well. I think this was a well designed tool and would recommend them highly if you can get your hands on a pair.

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"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

Offline Smear

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 07:35:00 AM »
Hey Al,
EMS in North Conway has one pair of the Lynx and two pair of M 10's right now.I know you won't get as good a deal but just thought I would let you know.
I've been useing the Cyborgs as well for the last couple of seasons and are pretty happy with them.Replacement front points are only around 13 dollars or so also!
Cheers,
Bob A

Offline apbt1976

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2012, 09:30:31 AM »
I am also using the Lynx. I got em early as i was told they would run out as soon as they hit the shelf. Yes full price sucked but i love them to be honest and it was worth it. The only thing i can compare them to it the BD Sabertooth and they are hands down no comparison. I have yet to use them as monos but plan on it the next time i get out on something steep. So glad i ponied up and bought a them!!

Go get that pair at EMS!!!!

Offline David_G48

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 10:51:42 AM »
Petzl has not only hit us up with high charges for front points on M10 Crampons, they are trying to force us to buy new Nomics by not manufacturing picks for the past model. I'm not sure why any of us would want to support a company that does not support the users of its products.
Someone make me feel good about Petzl. I have both the Quarks and the Nomics in the prior version. Maybe the next set should be from another company.
Al, I feel for your situation. Go to IME and borrow different kinds of crampons and let us know your thoughts on other models and brands. Should be time for Brad to bring some in for his guide service ;).

Offline old_school

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 12:23:24 PM »
Petzl has not only hit us up with high charges for front points on M10 Crampons, they are trying to force us to buy new Nomics by not manufacturing picks for the past model.

The new picks don't fit the old model Nomics??? Are you sure about that?   ??? I think you may be thinking about the Quarks. The old picks won't fit those now that the Quarks are fitted with the Nomic heads. Pretty sure that the new picks will fit the old nomics.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 12:43:45 PM by old_school »
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

Offline apbt1976

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 03:05:05 PM »
Petzl has not only hit us up with high charges for front points on M10 Crampons, they are trying to force us to buy new Nomics by not manufacturing picks for the past model.

The new picks don't fit the old model Nomics??? Are you sure about that?   ??? I think you may be thinking about the Quarks. The old picks won't fit those now that the Quarks are fitted with the Nomic heads. Pretty sure that the new picks will fit the old nomics.  ;)

That would all be lame. I climb with the new Cobras but am planning on Nomics or Ergos next season. Better look into this one first as that sucks. I suppose i would still buy them though?

Offline Jeff

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 04:27:27 PM »
I'm an old fart, and cheap besides :-\-- there I admitted it-- My Quarks are the original ones, to which I fitted the pinky rests when they became available a year or two later. I climb in M10s. I can't get my head around getting new tools every year; are you guys that hard on gear? Quarks are soooo much better than my old Chouinard axes and Lowe Hummingbirds, and the new screws are sooo much easier to place than the old Salewas (I told you not to mention the Warthogs) that it seems like cheating sometimes 8)-- I guess I'm still just happy enough finding a way to scratch up something cold without scaring myself too much and following all it with a pint of something else cold in the evening to worry about buying new gear every year. End of rant-- it's five o'clock somewhere!
BTW I do know that Al H. climbs enough to wear out his frontpoints, but climbing with NEW Cobras and planning to buy Nomics or Ergos next year seems over the top to me! ;)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 04:29:07 PM by Jeff »

Offline slink

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Re: the crampon conundrum
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 04:38:17 PM »
Jeff I still have some snargs and Lowe rats that work well improvement from the warthog,they sit in a box as I do have some BD turbos and some with out knobs.
bailing is not failing!!!