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[z.st.jules]

Not sure if anyone has tried to climb at band m ledge recently but
my father-in-law and I went a few months ago and were asked very nicely to leave
by Coleman. He doesn't allow climbing on his land anymore.
He is an avid climber himself; it seemed to bother him that he had to ask us to leave.

[eyebolter]

Bummer, I always liked that cliff and used to camp there all the time as my Conway bivi.  Bandit is a great 9 and If Dogs Run Free is a classic 11.

[z.st.jules]

yeah such a bummer.
He said someone was climbing there, fell and got injured
and sued him. I can't believe stuff like that happens.
how can they even justify that. one ruined it for all.

[sneoh]

He said someone was climbing there, fell and got injured
and sued him. I can't believe stuff like that happens.

If true, that is a truly sad commentary on the stupidity of some of our fellow Man and the state of our society!

[Admin Al]

He said someone was climbing there, fell and got injured
and sued him.

really?? I have not heard anything about that...

[z.st.jules]

As far as I know it is still listed in the newer guide books so it seems like its not common knowledge.
I guess coleman hasn't made a public announcement, or however that would be done.
I'd be really interested to hear if anyone has climbed there recently.

[meclimber]

last year and saw guys working.  no harm no foul.  This happened this winter.  if so, to bad, great cliff.

[OldEric]

Sounds like at least the Access Fund and AAC should be contacted.  Nothing will probably change but it can't hurt to try.

[alclimbup2]

For starts: who is Coleman?

[Admin Al]

Coleman is who owns the quarry and construction operation that is where Band M is located. I am not sure that he owns the actual cliff, but he probably does.

[strandman]

Bummer, I always liked that cliff and used to camp there all the time as my Conway bivi.  Bandit is a great 9 and If Dogs Run Free is a classic 11.

I think Coleman owns up to the cliff and not the top or cliff itself. maybe

The other approachs are way bad.  Maybe the person who sued should be arrested for trespassing

Some really good climbs

[lucky luke]

yeah such a bummer.
He said someone was climbing there, fell and got injured
and sued him. I can't believe stuff like that happens.
how can they even justify that. one ruined it for all.

Unfortunately, it is true that as we put bolt on a cliff, that means that the owner have to gave to the climber the reliability that a bolt need. He is responsible of it. It is true that he can not stop all climber to go to the cliff, he can not seat at the bottom waiting for climbers and in that way, he is not responsible. But he can chop bolts. One of the bad effect of sport is the privatisation of the cliff. Even if the owner of a cliff win his case, the fact that he had to go in court is very annoying.

I try to inform you of that problem many times. In Quebec, it is horrible. There was no climber for fun any more. They make climber for money. I hope that we can make the distinction about trad (climbing the cliff as his, so there is no responsability to the owner of the cliff to keep the cliff in his natural state) and sport (accentuate the responsability of the first ascent leader to protect correctly the route with bolt and belay and be pursued if they make a mistake or be careless).   

[M_Sprague]

Not that it excuses the suing at all, but I wonder if they got hurt on one of the climbs that somebody recently tried to upgrade the hardware on only to have it chopped by zealots.

I hope the Access fund/AAC can help out. I wonder if they would be willing to transfer or sell ownership of the actual crag and good access could be made to it so people didn't have to go through the gravel operation.

[Nico]

In Maine, a landowner is immune from liability if someone is injured while on the land for recreation. The only exception is if the injured person paid the landowner to be on the land, like a private campground.  Folks have pressed the envelope some (for example, sued a paper company for a car accident caused by a bad road, where the injured person leased a camp from the paper company and used the road to get to the camp) and the court told the injured person to get lost. Even in the absence of statutory immunity, it would be hard to make a case against a cliff owner. I mean, assumption of the risk still means something.

Don't know about N.H.

[z.st.jules]

Interesting.