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Author Topic: Another mess on Everest  (Read 309 times)

DaveR

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lucky luke

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 01:26:22 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/six-killed-everest-avalanche-044336060.html?vp=1

Avalanches is part of the game. If it is a mess, we can find error some where. At first, an avalanche is an objective danger.

In the Krakauer mentality, one will ask the question why the people climb the mountain. Better to stay around and discourage people who like to live there life. Sitting back, trying to control the environment by using artificial way.

It is not climbing mentality, which is more a model of the need pyramide (maslow), bringing many reckless people to take there life in control as much as they control themself when they climb with the insecurity of the unknow.

There is still some question of ethic. Should we care about worker who make money by making the mountain a road for every body with money? I most say that from Hilary, school was build and a large part of the economy of Nepal is from tourism. There was probably more victim dying alone in no where because they need the money from tourism than sherpa dying in the mountain.

This kind of accident is it more important than a slide that happen recently in US where many people was kill by a "mud" avalanche???
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strandman

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2014, 04:25:24 PM »

Krakuer is a asshole

LL you again look to who ever it is you look to...Messner called it summit fever  and later mountain fever..that's good enough for me
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DaveR

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 09:28:47 PM »

Krakuer is a asshole

LL you again look to who ever it is you look to...Messner called it summit fever  and later mountain fever..that's good enough for me

Krakuer is an ass and Messner was the man! He set the standard for clean high altitude climbing.

Unfortunately these Sherpas died just trying to earn enough to feed their family's. What's so bad about that is that they were fixing ropes for a bunch of rich "trophy hunters" who as Messner put it, "many are not qualified to climb the Matterhorn on their own." IMO that is an ugly part of Himalayan climbing today.

"Everest 2000 Apex of All Vanities" Climbing no. 188 An awesome article by Messner.

3 locals who set high standards, Bouchard and Richie doing crazy ass shit like Shivling! Webster on the Kangshung face is another. Messner told those guys they were insane before they left. All 3 of them have slide shows with some wild pics!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:57:24 PM by DaveR »
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Pete Jackson

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 09:41:04 PM »

Krakuer is a asshole

I am SO EFFING GLAD to hear another person say this (although I suspect you are not the first to say it, just the first I have heard say it.)

Now, back to on-topic stuff.
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strandman

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 10:16:51 PM »

Ever met him ??   The self effecting poor, british acent used to kill me.
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DaveR

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 10:50:43 PM »

Ever met him ??   The self effecting poor, british acent used to kill me.

Yes I have and he just came across as a huge dick!
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lucky luke

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #7 on: Today at 12:37:14 AM »

Krakuer is a asshole

I am SO EFFING GLAD to hear another person say this (although I suspect you are not the first to say it, just the first I have heard say it.)

Now, back to on-topic stuff.

He influence a lot of people with his book into the wild, an his book on the accident in Mt Everest. I also red, I force myself to reed, an other book with height accident story.

It is hard to put words on what make him an asshole. A lot of parents think like him as a lot of parent don't want that there son go to war. The argument of krakuer to discredit climbing take there roots on the pain of the parents when they lost there child. There child was good, but the search of himself was stupid. It is why he is an asshole.  He never took in consideration the importance to go "on the road". That some child are born death of motivation.  As he took himself to compare the other, he travel on a glacier with perch to avoid crevasse and burn his tent in remote area because he was careless. He is not a model, or a model of fail. Making money to leave with...

Some child search something in there life...adventure. And climbing is one way that they can use to be able to estimate there value by themselve. In a job or in a cliff, some times you have to go for it...and it's work. Some times you have to retreat and when you climb, some time you have to bail I know many people, reckless, who make solid worker by climbing.

So, what is an asshole....      some time you have to retreat....but not when you climb on bolt route.. ;) ;D  ::)

     
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strandman

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #8 on: Today at 09:40:46 AM »

??? i guess Everest is a sport climb ?? I know some bolts have been  placed but... ?
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Pete Jackson

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #9 on: Today at 10:15:07 AM »

Ever met him ??   The self effecting poor, british acent used to kill me.

I have not. Honestly, I am glad that I haven't, and I dread the day that I do, because I don't have much nice to say. I've read his Everest book, Boukreev's book, Kenneth Kamler's book, Sandy Hill Pittman's writings, and the opinion I form from those sources isn't favorable. Even Dave Roberts' (his mentor?) references to Krakauer weren't super favorable -- though by the time I read Roberts' memoir I had a negative view of Krakauer, so perhaps my reading was tainted..

It is hard to put words on what make him an asshole.

I'll try: he sounds like a self-important egotistical narcissist who gains more from putting other people down than from taking humble revelation in his own achievements. The way he took down Greg Mortenson for Three Cups of Tea, while justified, came across more as a vendetta than as the work of a truth-seeker. He is, by all accounts, a gifted climber and a gifted writer. But instead of using those gifts for good, the tone comes across as self-important to the exclusion of all others' possible merit.

But you must consider that I haven't met him, so my opinion isn't well formed and certainly could be invalid. Hearing someone who has met him say he is an ass gives me a measure of confidence in panning him. But, again: it's an outside impression.

Unfortunately these Sherpas died just trying to earn enough to feed their family's. What's so bad about that is that they were fixing ropes for a bunch of rich "trophy hunters" who as Messner put it, "many are not qualified to climb the Matterhorn on their own." IMO that is an ugly part of Himalayan climbing today.

OK, back on topic.

I think Ed V. said it best: "The Everest experience today is not the experience that I want to have." I feel terrible for the folks who died earning a living, and for their families. The mountain is angry. There are too many people on Everest, and too many people milking mother nature for cash by putting people who don't belong there in to harm's way for a buck.

Last year, the same root causes led to a brawl where two climbers were almost killed by an angry mob. This year, the mountain killed 16 people on the first day above the icefall. Correlation isn't causation: I do not suggest that the mountain retaliated for the sins of last season. That said: if you believe that Sagarmatha is a goddess, you gotta wonder WTF is wrong with how the world is treating her.

I'd like to see Everest returned into the hands of dedicated, lifetime mountaineers. This tourist stuff has to stop.
 
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The other tomcat

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #10 on: Today at 10:18:29 AM »

Krakauer is a dick in my book, and it's easy to put into words for me!  In Into Thin Air he chooses to play experienced climber guy until the shit hits the fan then lays in his tent while Boukreev goes out and rescues some people, then has the gall to criticize the guys actions?

Outside magazine can go fuck themselves too.
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Tom Stryker

DaveR

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #11 on: Today at 10:45:04 AM »

Krakauer is a dick in my book, and it's easy to put into words for me!  In Into Thin Air he chooses to play experienced climber guy until the shit hits the fan then lays in his tent while Boukreev goes out and rescues some people, then has the gall to criticize the guys actions?

Outside magazine can go fuck themselves too.


Well said Tomcat! You have put my feelings about him into words perfectly. Boukreev was an amazing climber and human being for what he did that day. Most have no understanding of what he did and how it went way beyond what is required of any human.
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strandman

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:05:43 AM »

Exactly..it's pretty sucky to criticize "guided" trips when your on one AND getting paid ! That book almost made me puke.. i guess a lot of books have that affect on me.....
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neiceclimber

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:41:33 PM »

Not that Krakauer is entirely to blame, but people retracing MCCandless' Alaskan footsteps have led to some wild and completely unnecessary rescues. National Park rangers have talked about removing the bus as an attempt to stop people and their stupidity. As a footnote the man that found McCandless was shot and killed in Wasilla by police not too long ago. Wasilla has to be the shittiest/toughest redneck roadside town in AK, nothing but meth heads, douchebag rednecks that couldn't hack it in the real bush, and over hyped, undereducated media whores.

Back on Everest, guided groups are dropping like flies following the tragedy and the Sherpa strike. I'm ok with this, I think the mountain could use a little rest from the abuse. I doubt we'll every see a return to smaller teams with actual technical experience. The only positive thing I can see from the past two years is that with the Nepalese unrest China stands to receive more guided groups (not that this is really positive for the mountain).
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strandman

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Re: Another mess on Everest
« Reply #14 on: Today at 06:17:20 PM »

OK but enough about sarah Palin
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