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Author Topic: State bills rescued hiker $7k  (Read 1055 times)

Admin Al

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State bills rescued hiker $7k
« on: April 23, 2012, 10:22:10 AM »

good article in today's Conway Sun by Erik Eisle:

 http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/89430-rescuebill-041312

then Jim Ewing pointed out this page on the NHF&G site:

 http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Law_Enforcement/sar_funding_FAQs.html

it's a real conundrum...
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DGoguen

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 10:51:04 AM »

I saw that the other day in the paper. That's a bit much.
Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to perish before calling the AMC Highland center for directions but she did pretty well overall.

What would happen if you had a minor climbing accident while climbing on Mt Washington, were really capable of, and committed to a self rescue and someone else calls it in. They scoop you and fine you $7000.

They contend that she was negligent because of the weather forecast. The rescuers are even calling it a desperate attempt to recoup cash.
I gave Mechanicalchris crap for complaining about camping fees the other day but this fee would kill you. How would you even afford to fight that.

The "Frequently Asked Questions" page that Jim points out is particularly scary. Take a look at the "What groups receive Search and Rescue services" tab.
Climbers, although lumped with hikers, appears first at 56%. I wonder what the number is if you split it up?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 11:02:49 AM by DGoguen »
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The other tomcat

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 11:08:40 AM »

If I read Eric's article correctly, Fish and Game didn't actually find her, Mountain Rescue did, and several members who were there thought the price a bit steep. Amusingly the F&G have put a 7000.00 price tag on it, but told the Conway Sun it could take sixty days to explain how they came up with that number.

In the end this will cause a myriad set of problems. People will delay calling for help when they should, and there will certainly be issues that arise when someone calls for a family member to be rescued, who is in fact, just overdue.

I can't wait to see the price breakdown....lol.
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Tom Stryker

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 11:11:27 AM »

She should not have been charged, however she did not have a map or compass with her.

Two basic items could have prevented this rescue from being needed. Itís a shame there is no mention of that anywhere in the discussion.
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M_Sprague

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 06:27:41 PM »

I try to avoid those situations, but if I really needed help and could make a phone call, I would call friends in the area who where up for the task first. Hopefully they wouldn't be in the Andes or passed out. Shimmie, come and get meee! I'm fucked up and my femur is sticking out of my chest. Come finish me off with a rock. I would be pissed if somebody ordered a search and rescue that I specifically asked not to have, and then got billed for it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 06:29:25 PM by M_Sprague »
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apbt1976

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 06:50:15 PM »

I try to avoid those situations, but if I really needed help and could make a phone call, I would call friends in the area who where up for the task first. Hopefully they wouldn't be in the Andes or passed out. Shimmie, come and get meee! I'm fucked up and my femur is sticking out of my chest. Come finish me off with a rock. I would be pissed if somebody ordered a search and rescue that I specifically asked not to have, and then got billed for it.

I think about this all the fucking time. With all the fucktards in this world i figure this has to happen more one would think. I know i don't have 7G and if someone placed the call for me and i did not ask for it i would be pissed! I think about this on the super highway up Washington heading into Huntington quite often.

I get strange looks running back and forth into and outa Huntington because i run it in sneakers, micro spikes and a 30L pack. I could easily see some of the more traditional hikers and their long list of 20 billion essentials or the mom and pop 2-3 times a season types hikers making one of those calls real quick because i had sprained a ankle or something.

On the other hand this lady made the call to the wrong dam person if she was worried about a bill. I would never had called them first but a friend or family member as it is a given decisions may be made for you real quick if you call the wrong person. I do agree it is big problem sooner than later this will discourage many from distinguishing when it is and is not time to make that all important call.
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DGoguen

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 07:14:44 PM »

Crazy T may remember this, but in the late eighties / early ninetys, we were climbing at Dickey and I was moaning so bad on a hard slab route that a hiker on the Welch-Dickey trail above, but couldn't see me below, ran and called for a rescue. The fireman came and everything with their rubber boots and coats. They threatened us pretty good until Jay who was quite hairy and scary at the time set them straight. Still funny now.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 07:21:12 PM by DGoguen »
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apbt1976

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 07:17:53 PM »

Crazy T may remember this, but in the mid eighties, we were climbing at Dickey and I was moaning so bad on a hard slab route that a hiker on the Welch-Dickey trail above, but couldn't see me below, ran and called for a rescue. The fireman came and everything with their rubber boots and coats. They threatened us pretty good until Jay who was quite hairy and scary at the time set them straight. Still funny now.

That is exactly what i imagine every time i am in a area with non climbers and i am climbing. Only takes a split second to decide one way or the other if a person needs help or not. As much as i say this there is the flip side of the coin when you would be happy someone made the call i suppose?

Funny story non the less and my biggest fear as these days just watch the news and what once was common place you now be arrested or fined  for.
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DWT

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 07:28:33 PM »

  12 guys, 12 hours, at night(OT), trucks, uniforms, equipment, and insurance.  $7471.00  That's nothing!  It's $50 per hour per man and $271.00 for gas.  Just Sayin'

Disclaimer:  I don't agree with the charge,  but the amount AIN'T steep.  Try gettin' a plumber at night for fifty an hour ::)
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The other tomcat

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 10:18:19 PM »

Or twelve plumbers that don't fix the leak....
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Tom Stryker

apbt1976

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 10:26:48 PM »

  12 guys, 12 hours, at night(OT), trucks, uniforms, equipment, and insurance.  $7471.00  That's nothing!  It's $50 per hour per man and $271.00 for gas.  Just Sayin'

Disclaimer:  I don't agree with the charge,  but the amount AIN'T steep.  Try gettin' a plumber at night for fifty an hour ::)

Just shut the dam water off at the main and wait till morning. Freaking plumbers and electricians and there $160 an hour average all said and done. Freaking crooks. Sorry if any of you are plumbers but you really are the crooks of the trades just a fact.
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DWT

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 04:09:19 PM »

Or twelve plumbers that don't fix the leak....
;D  LOL
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M_Sprague

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 10:59:47 AM »

Just shut the dam water off at the main and wait till morning. Freaking plumbers and electricians and there $160 an hour average all said and done. Freaking crooks. Sorry if any of you are plumbers but you really are the crooks of the trades just a fact.

I doubt most electricians or plumbers are getting an average $160 an hour for a normal call. That would be an emergency call, where they have to drop what they are doing and head over, or maybe a time and a half Saturday call. What ever they are getting paid gets eaten up pretty quickly. I know, I did the bookkeeping for a small business for many years. Sending a guy out in a van with all his equipment is not cheap. After payroll you have the cost of the vehicle and running it, insurance, advertising, time getting parts... on and on, and the business has to actually make some profit. I know it sucks to pay it, but that is what it costs.
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neiceclimber

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 11:41:32 AM »

Not having to walk down through some of that krummholz is almost worth paying the 7g's.
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apbt1976

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Re: State bills rescued hiker $7k
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 11:50:24 AM »

Just shut the dam water off at the main and wait till morning. Freaking plumbers and electricians and there $160 an hour average all said and done. Freaking crooks. Sorry if any of you are plumbers but you really are the crooks of the trades just a fact.

I doubt most electricians or plumbers are getting an average $160 an hour for a normal call. That would be an emergency call, where they have to drop what they are doing and head over, or maybe a time and a half Saturday call. What ever they are getting paid gets eaten up pretty quickly. I know, I did the bookkeeping for a small business for many years. Sending a guy out in a van with all his equipment is not cheap. After payroll you have the cost of the vehicle and running it, insurance, advertising, time getting parts... on and on, and the business has to actually make some profit. I know it sucks to pay it, but that is what it costs.

I am talking about the small two three man operation with the boss working. I was in the trades most of my life "carpenter, tile guy, painter" and have had many a plumber friends. It is a well known fact that plumbers and electricians rake in the $$$ in comparison being the $$$ they also make on markups of product "new boiler or water heater" blah blah blah.

Most of the plumber friends i have had over the years not only feel entitled the inflated rates they get in comparison to other trades but even go so far as to brag about it. I billed out $125 hr and then charged them $3000 for a boiler i payed $1500 for. Sure it is the way of the world just saying plumbers got it made in comparison to other trades and for what a good finish carpenter serves many years of apprenticeship just as does a plumber.

I am not all but hurt or anything as i don't even work in the trades anymore. Just saying...

Ow yeah pretty sure any 99.9% of Fish and Game employees working up north would be stoked to make $50 hr. Probably more like $8-25 max? Sure overhead has to be figured in but $50 hr seems a bit much if you are the one being stuck with the bill.
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