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Author Topic: Efficient 3 person movement on White Horse Standard Route with 2 half ropes?  (Read 5238 times)

old_school

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Chris- ANY fall on the slabs is worth talking about   8)

+1
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"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

DLottmann

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Everyone is 'entitled' to have a bad day, especially if it is blisteringly hot.
Like my buddy SteveB had said on multiple occasions "there is no lower bound to one's climbing ability!".

Absolutely! Perhaps I generalized a bit... I just don’t see/hear it happen that often. I climbed up a moist start of Beginner’s route a few years ago while guiding and right before I got into the drier less green rock I felt it... oops... I said as I slid back down to the ground on my hands and feet... I think that pitch is 5.1...

And blisterhot days on the slabs suck...
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lucky luke

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Would be cool for someone with experience to explain how falling on a low angle slab runnout works. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you had a 30 foot white horse runnout on a 5.5 for example? A 5.5 is much less steep than the 5.7 and I only slid about 15 feet.

Falling on a incline wall diminish the fall factor. The friction on the slab slow your speed and you don't take as much energy than when you fall on the air and hit the rock after. Some 5.7 have less inclinaison than a 5.5. I thought at a slab call patinoire (ice ring) in quebec which is very slipery and harder than a number 30 paper sand.

As you climb, you had probably your weight divided on both your hands and your feet. That situation is probably the reason why you sleep. In a slab, there is a technique that you can learn to avoid that kind of mistake (not saying that you did it). sliding on for point of contact look pretty safe in your case. if your feet caught a small ledge, you can have been filp over and be more injure. As i climb, I always look where i am going to fall if i sleep. It help me many times as I was able to place my body instanctively in a way to avoid that ledge or small overhang.

Personally I will never recomand to walk on a slab as I saw in some post. A beginer have to learn the basic of three point of contact on easy ground before trying it on harder slab. My partner, who is a guide, do it and I still don't like that. And I know that he know better them me how to slab climb 
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DLottmann

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As i climb, I always look where i am going to fall if i sleep...

Personally I will never recomand to walk on a slab as I saw in some post. A beginer have to learn the basic of three point of contact on easy ground before trying it on harder slab. My partner, who is a guide, do it and I still don't like that. And I know that he know better them me how to slab climb

Better to not sleep while actively climbing, to prevent falling. Just kidding Champ! It’s “slip”, not “sleep” but we knew what you meant. “Sleep” makes it funny to read though! :)

The reason guides, and long time slab climbers often say “stand up” to beginner’s on slabs is most of the time people lean in to much and don’t stay weighted over their feet. There’s nothing wrong with keeping your hands on the rock, but that is hard to do on 35 degree slab, which is much of lower Whitehorse, without leaning in to much. I find it easier to do when following, but when leading the same pitch I may just use fingertips with outstretched arms to stay more stable...  the important concept is stay over your feet and stop leaning in so much!
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apbt1976

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As i climb, I always look where i am going to fall if i sleep...

Personally I will never recomand to walk on a slab as I saw in some post. A beginer have to learn the basic of three point of contact on easy ground before trying it on harder slab. My partner, who is a guide, do it and I still don't like that. And I know that he know better them me how to slab climb

Better to not sleep while actively climbing, to prevent falling. Just kidding Champ! It’s “slip”, not “sleep” but we knew what you meant. “Sleep” makes it funny to read though! :)

The reason guides, and long time slab climbers often say “stand up” to beginner’s on slabs is most of the time people lean in to much and don’t stay weighted over their feet. There’s nothing wrong with keeping your hands on the rock, but that is hard to do on 35 degree slab, which is much of lower Whitehorse, without leaning in to much. I find it easier to do when following, but when leading the same pitch I may just use fingertips with outstretched arms to stay more stable...  the important concept is stay over your feet and stop leaning in so much!

So that 2-3 bolt 5.10 slab to the left of Bombardment "hands or no hands" ?
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DLottmann

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oh god hands! That’s closer to 60 degrees I think... definitely hands.

Next time you’re at the top of Cathedral look closely at Whitehorse from that nice look out that faces it... look at the lower pitches, it helps with perspective... then, when climbing on those lower slabs if it starts to feel sketch, look sideways... when you compare the horizon to the slab you can remind yourself “this is not as steep as I’m making it feel”.

About 10 years ago I freaked myself out on the 5.3 pitch of Slabs Direct getting to the pinch on Lunch Ledge... really off day and I was crawling up the slab 60 feet from the last bolt sweating buckets... I think folks on Standard were actually concerned... looking back it was all in my head, and horrible body position... that same terrain today is a walk up as I perceive it for what it is, 40ish degree slab...

The closer your face is to the rock, the steeper your mind will tell you the cliff is. Look sideways, stay upright over your feet, breathe... and all should go well... until you slip ;)
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apbt1976

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oh god hands! That’s closer to 60 degrees I think... definitely hands.

Next time you’re at the top of Cathedral look closely at Whitehorse from that nice look out that faces it... look at the lower pitches, it helps with perspective... then, when climbing on those lower slabs if it starts to feel sketch, look sideways... when you compare the horizon to the slab you can remind yourself “this is not as steep as I’m making it feel”.

About 10 years ago I freaked myself out on the 5.3 pitch of Slabs Direct getting to the pinch on Lunch Ledge... really off day and I was crawling up the slab 60 feet from the last bolt sweating buckets... I think folks on Standard were actually concerned... looking back it was all in my head, and horrible body position... that same terrain today is a walk up as I perceive it for what it is, 40ish degree slab...

The closer your face is to the rock, the steeper your mind will tell you the cliff is. Look sideways, stay upright over your feet, breathe... and all should go well... until you slip ;)

So clippity at Rumney what degree of angle do you think that is?
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DLottmann

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I’ve only done that once as I don’t get to Rumney often but a friend solos it in 40 minutes car to car... I’d say it’s probably pretty low angle, and featured. He also has some damn good lungs...
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apbt1976

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I’ve only done that once as I don’t get to Rumney often but a friend solos it in 40 minutes car to car... I’d say it’s probably pretty low angle, and featured. He also has some damn good lungs...

Funny you should say that. Me and a a couple friends did just that last week. Well not in 40 minutes car to car but at the end of the day. One suggested after we got back to the car that it would make a great run out and back. I agree now if i could only heal this achilles and planters problems i could get back to running instead of just climbing.
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mechanicalchris

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Here's a pic I took from that beautiful belay on Lady and The Tramp of two guys soloing Clippety a few weeks ago.

http://postimage.org/image/z1hojvtff/

Clippety is fun but Laura and I both think "Lady and The Tramp" next door even better despite not being as classic (It's actually my favorite climb at Rumney so far along with 'Fear of Abraham').

Hard comparison on the angle but I think Clippety is actually steeper in some parts than a lot of the White Horse lower slabs. A few feet after the first belay is pretty legit. (if you don't use the dike). With that said, the mind game is almost not comparable. But I'm bias, White Horse is my favorite rock... maybe because it gives me so much trouble.


« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 10:10:39 AM by mechanicalchris »
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apbt1976

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Here's a pic I took from that beautiful belay on Lady and The Tramp of two guys soloing Clippety a few weeks ago.

http://postimage.org/image/z1hojvtff/

Clippety is fun but Laura and I both think "Lady and The Tramp" next door even better despite not being as classic (It's actually my favorite climb at Rumney so far along with 'Fear of Abraham').

Hard comparison on the angle but I think Clippety is actually steeper in some parts than a lot of the White Horse lower slabs. A few feet after the first belay is pretty legit. (if you don't use the dike). With that said, the mind game is almost not comparable. But I'm bias, White Horse is my favorite rock... maybe because it gives me so much trouble.

Yup that's about what it felt like and what i remember. I am such a nerd so low angle, if i did not climb rock i would not think twice about running up clippety if it was in my way and i needed to get around it! Sometimes knowledge can really make you over think the most basic stuff...
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mechanicalchris

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Here's a pic I took from that beautiful belay on Lady and The Tramp of two guys soloing Clippety a few weeks ago.

http://postimage.org/image/z1hojvtff/

Clippety is fun but Laura and I both think "Lady and The Tramp" next door even better despite not being as classic (It's actually my favorite climb at Rumney so far along with 'Fear of Abraham').

Hard comparison on the angle but I think Clippety is actually steeper in some parts than a lot of the White Horse lower slabs. A few feet after the first belay is pretty legit. (if you don't use the dike). With that said, the mind game is almost not comparable. But I'm bias, White Horse is my favorite rock... maybe because it gives me so much trouble.

Yup that's about what it felt like and what i remember. I am such a nerd so low angle, if i did not climb rock i would not think twice about running up clippety if it was in my way and i needed to get around it! Sometimes knowledge can really make you over think the most basic stuff...

When I fall its because I get way too scared for no reason. I had a stellar run for a few weeks; Artists Bluff, Echo and Standard Route. And then for some reason Saturday night I couldn't stop thinking about Slabs Direct; which I've lead all before, except that one 5.7 pitch.

But for some reason I just got so intimidated at the idea. I was beat before I ever stepped on the slab. As a test, after we rapped off, I went over to "Holy Land" at Echo roof... which I'd climbed no problem several times two weeks before.  I was so nervous right before the belay. I also remember looking up at the second pitch that goes under the roof a few weeks ago and thinking "That looks pretty easy and straightforward." and then on Sunday I was like "No way, that looks like suicide."

I wonder if it has to do with an audience. My little sister's boyfriend was with us. For some reason I think it's a strange personal thing. Laura says she can only lead around certain people. At 'Garden of The Gods' a crowd of tourists formed while I was on White Spire and I just remember the climbing going from being fun and manageable to desperate real fast.

Everyone is telling their kids to look and take pictures... and some woman's like "He goin' crack his head open". My leg started doing the Elvis... lol while I'm trying to wait everyone out.
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apbt1976

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Here's a pic I took from that beautiful belay on Lady and The Tramp of two guys soloing Clippety a few weeks ago.

http://postimage.org/image/z1hojvtff/

Clippety is fun but Laura and I both think "Lady and The Tramp" next door even better despite not being as classic (It's actually my favorite climb at Rumney so far along with 'Fear of Abraham').

Hard comparison on the angle but I think Clippety is actually steeper in some parts than a lot of the White Horse lower slabs. A few feet after the first belay is pretty legit. (if you don't use the dike). With that said, the mind game is almost not comparable. But I'm bias, White Horse is my favorite rock... maybe because it gives me so much trouble.

Yup that's about what it felt like and what i remember. I am such a nerd so low angle, if i did not climb rock i would not think twice about running up clippety if it was in my way and i needed to get around it! Sometimes knowledge can really make you over think the most basic stuff...

When I fall its because I get way too scared for no reason. I had a stellar run for a few weeks; Artists Bluff, Echo and Standard Route. And then for some reason Saturday night I couldn't stop thinking about Slabs Direct; which I've lead all before, except that one 5.7 pitch.

But for some reason I just got so intimidated at the idea. I was beat before I ever stepped on the slab. As a test, after we rapped off, I went over to "Holy Land" at Echo roof... which I'd climbed no problem several times two weeks before.  I was so nervous right before the belay. I also remember looking up at the second pitch that goes under the roof a few weeks ago and thinking "That looks pretty easy and straightforward." and then on Sunday I was like "No way, that looks like suicide."

I wonder if it has to do with an audience. My little sister's boyfriend was with us. For some reason I think it's a strange personal thing. Laura says she can only lead around certain people. At 'Garden of The Gods' a crowd of tourists formed while I was on White Spire and I just remember the climbing going from being fun and manageable to desperate real fast.

Everyone is telling their kids to look and take pictures... and some woman's like "He goin' crack his head open". My leg started doing the Elvis... lol while I'm trying to wait everyone out.

The same thing happens to me from time to time.

Less now that it used to when i first started climbing but every once and a while a crowd or new/wrong partner can still really wreck my head. When this happens i go solo something well within my ability, Hitchcock, Shoestring, Odells, or in the case of rock Clippity. Normally that does the trick and gets my head back on track and i am good to go!!
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DLottmann

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Here's a pic I took from that beautiful belay on Lady and The Tramp of two guys soloing Clippety a few weeks ago.

http://postimage.org/image/z1hojvtff/



That’s a perfect example of leaning way to far into the rock and not keeping your weight over your feet. It looks like they are crawling vrs. climbing. Stand up you two! :) Seriously, when you lean in so far you 1) can’t see your feet/holds as well, and 2) your weight is not pushing straight down on the slab making you more likely to slip...

Leaning in like that provides a FALSE sense of security...
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xcrag_corex

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that pic is of me and my friend tyler. at that point I wasn't even moving and I was looking up the rock. waiting for tyler to get a head start. def have that climb dialed and the friction on that thing is rediculous. funny that that was you chris.... didn't even recognize you. met you out at Frankenstein early april 2 seasons ago when me and my girl were hiking. good to see you are getting after it!


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