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competence for trad climber

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lucky luke:
On rescuer death thread, Pappy said: “Especially in the big mountains we take our lives into our own hands, and that's our choice. But with that choice come the responsibility to be competent and accept the consequences.[…] we should all help pass on some of our knowledge and awareness to future climbers. So, you understand why I ask the question: what is a competent trad climber?

On the same thread, Steve Frechette resume competence like that:“You think that people are advancing too fast in the sport of climbing. Maybe from the increase and access to rock gymns and sport climbing? You see the value in learning how to be a well rounded climber. Know how to layback, jam, crimp stem and Place pro, since these techniques allow you to progress and conserve energy for bigger moves later. I also think you are saying that experience in other areas is essential to being a survivor of the mountain, things like being able to read conditions, self arrest, techniques for extracting someone from a ledge, or crevasse”.
After that there is another discussion where the guy asked for information on Pinacle gully. He want to teach to a co-worker how to put in some pro…is it all the knowledge that he need?!! The leader present a handful of climb that he did and think that he can teach to someone else (bringing a partner into the wild and teaching is two think for me)

The worse is that those two mentality exist and fight against each other. When you read mountaineering freedom of the hill, first to fifth edition, the book is like the description of Frechette, a bible, with all the technique good and bad that you have to learn. On the later edition, it is more a story book on a co-worker bringing his friend on the mountain using good procedure in perfect condition. Dman have that approach and I have the other, the reason of our conflict. For me, threading a wire nuts with a sling is bad, but if there is too much rope drag and you can’t do the last move…thread it.
How can we learn the competence to decide between two situations: safe and dangerous? It is not quite different than deciding between two techniques.  All techniques are very simple. Plug in pro in a route like nutcrackers at cathedral, whit good stance and a pro eating crack…it is not a competence. Knowing your reaction when your three last pro pulls out because of rope drag and you can fall to your death, that his a competences that you must learn. If you panick under stress, it is not good. A competent leader will stay concentrate even if he show some sign of stress. Should we bring a trad beginner climbing pinnacle, where he will see all the danger: climbing schedule, weather, fall factor, pro belay, how he can bail on rap, etc or should we teach him competence in a route of 60 feet, similar to a sport route, where the only difference is that you plug in a cam, because it is easier than nuts, in the rock?   


Man champo, I try to stay out of these things.  Especially after you tried to continue a conversation in email with me.  But damn, do you ever get tired of reading what you write!?!  Why can't you ask about conditions, bitch about bolts, and spray about what you got on last weekend like the rest of us.  I feel like every post is exactly the same and has nothing to do with the language barrier.  I feel like we're getting Quebecois trolled...

Flame on please...

When I climb, I decide what is the reason why I climb the rock? Many climbers who go to the cliff to do so because they look, and say that I can do that. But not everyone climbs like me. I asked a climber who was there below the cliff which is why it climbs? Because without the right technique, he says when you have something later, it will climb a cliff. Can I ask a question? I ask because I want to learn climbing and is learning, but it's something I have said already if you read carefully. Most climbers do not go the same way, I climb but they do not go up because the same reason, and that's ok. But sometimes I do not climb because of the reasons I think I do. Sometimes I go up because the climb is the rock and the rock is the climb. Did you know? I did not when I started climbing, but that's ok because the climb and a route such as routes that are trad climbs where I climb. To me, that's why I climb, but it is not perhaps the same reason that when you climb both the climb there should be an agreement that the other person is on the climb. How can you tell what a person is on the climb if another person is different climbing? It is not fair to say that I think.

X position.

lucky luke:

--- Quote from: meclimber on June 28, 2012, 01:45:04 pm ---Man champo, I try to stay out of these things.  Especially after you tried to continue a conversation in email with me.  But damn, do you ever get tired of reading what you write!?!  Why can't you ask about conditions, bitch about bolts, and spray about what you got on last weekend like the rest of us.
--- End quote ---

It is in beginer section and some of them don't know about climbing. If Pappy talk about competency, we should know what it is. The second paragraphe gave some example of what it is for a beginer trad climber, of course, it is not a conversation with you (I don't remember it if we talk togheter), it is for beginer.

I am concern about safety and I climb so many times, in so many conditions that I don't like to talk aboout it. It is fun when some people bring epic at a good time, but nothing more. I have the competency to make my dreams a reality and I climbed in remote area where the closest person was miles away from me. I think that to be a leader, I must have a knowledge to anticipate most situation and bring my party to challenge themselve. Some time, I am the stronger climber, but not the leader of the party.

How can it be possible if I am in the sharp end of the rope and I am not the leader. For some people, which this thread is address, they like to be able to discuss those thing. But because people hijack every time what I said and try to ridiculise what I am saying, I should repeat against and against the same thing...hopping that this one will be the good one.

If you prefer to bitch on bolt or talk about condition...!!! don't read me! don't care about what I am saying! If you answer some thing, it is because you have some interest in it. 



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