competence for trad climber

[DLottmann]

I agree Tradman... climbing with a 50L pack is silly. A bullet pack is a pack... and about the perfect pack for Cannon/Cathedral/Whitehorse. I just see a lot of hungry/dehydrated slow moving parties with all there accouterments left on the ground hours away...

If some one is sewing up Toe Crack maybe they are practicing their placements, on-sighting at their limit, etc. I don’t think a guide said “you should place gear every other move" to them. I’ve always said try to place enough gear to not hit the ground or a ledge if your last piece fails. Not always possible. I also explain why I run it out on easier terrain.

It really comes down to experience. The more mileage one puts in, the more efficient they become. Being guided can really jump start the climber’s skill early on, and help focus on weakness or gaps in their knowledge later on, just like climbing with any skilled partner.

[lucky luke]

I’ve always said try to place enough gear to not hit the ground or a ledge if your last piece fails. Not always possible. I also explain why I run it out on easier terrain.

I don't make a post against what you did. You can be a very good guide or partner, I never climb with you. I talked about a tendency to gain experience from anterior success on making an hard move (bolt, sue a crack and mountain). It is a technique that they use in school and because the parents need zero danger,  the parent create a situation where they place there child in danger.

I promote the tendancy to gain experience from anterior success on seing the dange and learn to avoid it. To see the danger, you most be in a situation where you are or feel in danger. A good guide will make you feel that you are in danger or make you think about that danger and, as a student, you will want to learn the technique to be safe.

I am not going to say that it is a good think to humiliate a women who take a hike to be in good shape and was trap like a mouse because the wind was in her back as she go and in her face when she come back. She made a mistake and many people will be more carefull about that problem because we learn from her mistake. I was in the same situation of her as I slept in the wood in mt washington between a ridge with 80 to 100 miles per hour wind and the alpine garden without any protection.   

[DLottmann]

I’ve always said try to place enough gear to not hit the ground or a ledge if your last piece fails. Not always possible. I also explain why I run it out on easier terrain.

...

I am not going to say that it is a good think to humiliate a women who take a hike to be in good shape and was trap like a mouse because the wind was in her back as she go and in her face when she come back. She made a mistake and many people will be more carefull about that problem because we learn from her mistake. I was in the same situation of her as I slept in the wood in mt washington between a ridge with 80 to 100 miles per hour wind and the alpine garden without any protection.   

I pretty much agreed with everything I didn't quote.

I did not “humilate” her, I simply stated the truth that had she had a map & compass she could have walked the 2 hours back to the car vrs. spend the night stomping circles in the snow to stay warm. Heading into white-out conditions without a map & compass and the skills to learn them is irresponsible and dangerous, no way you can tell me differently.

BTW, Freedom of the Hills does have an excellent chapter on map & compass.

[meclimber]

"... I slept in the wood in mt washington between a ridge with 80 to 100 miles per hour wind and the alpine garden without any protection."

But did you assume the X position?   

[triguy]

Just once I would love to see a post from Champ that goes something like "went climbing today with some great freinds, the weather was beautiful, and we really had a great time just enjoying being climbers".

[sneoh]

Just once I would love to see a post from Champ that goes something like "went climbing today with some great freinds, the weather was beautiful, and we really had a great time just enjoying being climbers".

+1 definitely.

[lucky luke]

Just once I would love to see a post from Champ that goes something like "went climbing today with some great freinds, the weather was beautiful, and we really had a great time just enjoying being climbers".

good time is hard to share. Younger, I try to talk with my family and firends about climbing. But they can't have the feeling and it is often a deception. when you meet a partner after a good route or some one who just did the route, just a smile is enought to understannd that it was a great climb.
 

[lucky luke]

I did not “humilate” her, I simply stated the truth that had she had a map & compass she could have walked the 2 hours back to the car vrs. spend the night stomping circles in the snow to stay warm. Heading into white-out conditions without a map & compass and the skills to learn them is irresponsible and dangerous, no way you can tell me differently.

It is your interpretation of the problem and if you make a  mistake...maybe I made a mistake in the thread about the rescue and I did not want to offense you...but I did offense you because you wrote me.

I was on a route close to shoestring that day with an other team, I want wind in my back and they went front wind. I took two hours to go down and I waited for them two more hours...and they was close to the route. i think that she took the good decision, at least the one that I will made... maybe I won't call the rescue, but I think that she took the good decision even with a compass.

when I was on mt washington, ... it is an other story.

[sneoh]

good time is hard to share. 

Perhaps this is an issue you want to work on.  I have a a very good or even great time almost every time I go climbing. 

[lucky luke]

Perhaps this is an issue you want to work on.  I have a a very good or even great time almost every time I go climbing.

When I climbed pinacle in a snow storm with the avalanche going uphill instead of down because there was too much wind, I have very good time. When I train, it is fun too. In general, when I can climb I am happy.

When I show picture and talk about my experience...tood dangerous, you are crazy, etc...it is not that much fun to be critizise by people who run away at the first cloud in the sky. So I shout my mouth.

I don't like danger, and what I am doing is safe and a step for higher summit. As Bouchard said to one of his partner..."just take a look!" 

[DLottmann]

“Good time is hard to share” with non-climbers... I get that... turn them into climbers or don’t bother. Non-climbers will not understand what you are trying to say.

For Christ sakes most hardcore climbers have a hard time figuring out what you are trying to say.

Avalanches can go uphill, but only when they are very big. Pretty sure that doesn’t happen on Pinnacle

[punxnotdead]

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick!  Champ, write a nonsensical book and quit suckering me into spending 15 minutes wasting my time reading this poop. Ugh, I cant believe I fell for it again! *queue kick in the nuts......

I am going climbing tomorrow at Tumble down dick! It may have some sport and may have some trad. But Im climbing, and I will be happy! (And enjoying a few jokes at your expense). Climb more, type less!

Bill Keiler

[Admin Al]

Climb more, type less!

I think that goes for everybody

[meclimber]

bill, that's a rare +1 from me.

[Jeff]

And another from me! After 3 straight days on the rock, I enjoyed a lazy Sunday brunch with my lovely wife; later I may scrub the mildew off the deck (or not) but I won't be typing much more!!