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Author Topic: Gunks trip  (Read 3103 times)

DMan

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2012, 01:52:57 PM »

...
Climbers pay more than hikers, bike riders, and monkey spankers. Why do they screw the climbers? Because they can.
And that's after climbers, through the access fund, (over)paid for that fancy outhouse.

^ This.

Jeff, I'd like to hear your opinion as to while climbers pay more than other rec. users there...
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strandman

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2012, 05:38:34 PM »

it's 'cause the Vulgarians are not around anymore. I always loved the shit about "authorized seconds ' and shit like thaat.. Fuck You

Kinda reminds me of NC in the 80's-  I wasn't local...  F/a's for me and fuck you for you..still pisse's me off  " you don't live here" "your from fucking Scotland !"
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Flotsam

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2012, 06:36:39 PM »

...
Climbers pay more than hikers, bike riders, and monkey spankers. Why do they screw the climbers? Because they can.
And that's after climbers, through the access fund, (over)paid for that fancy outhouse.

^ This.

Jeff, I'd like to hear your opinion as to while climbers pay more than other rec. users there...

Actually bikes and climbers pay the same.
      $12 for hikers
      $17 for climbers and bikers
http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/hours-and-fees

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Jeff

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2012, 06:40:29 PM »

   "Jeff, I'd like to hear your opinion as to while climbers pay more than other rec. users there..."

Dave, Since, as Flotsam said, it's the same price for bikes, I'm guessing it has to do with insurance, but I don't know--just a guess.
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strandman

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2012, 07:31:13 PM »

$17 a day seems WAY overboard to me... JT is $30 for the week and has 8000+ routes ?    For $17 a day, I need beer. I think the Gunks is great, with fine climbsetc... But I thought $3 was to much,, bitd

So much for bitchin' about WMNF parking fees

Seems to me that the Access Fund could have really hit this one hard..? I guess you fight your fights and then..
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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2012, 08:24:07 PM »

So much for bitchin' about WMNF parking fees
+1.  We have it good in NH.
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DMan

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2012, 08:53:47 PM »

Thanks Jeff, it does make me feel slightly better that bikers are being discriminated against as well... if I thought even 50% of the usage fee was going back into actually preserving the land trust and not padding the pockets of some "board of directors" somewhere I'd feel a lot better about it. AAC paying for the outhouse is evidence to me the money isn't going back to the land, or the users, just to the owners...
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DMan

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2012, 08:54:54 PM »

Plus, the gunks sees an high amount of climber accidents every season, and no lawsuits/insurance claims... so the higher rate is just a form of extortion...
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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2012, 09:27:46 PM »

I just did some reading; The Mohonk Preserve is a 501c(3) non-profit organization, exempt from Federal income tax.  Here are the links to some financial statements -
http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/sites/default/files/files/PDF/FinancialStatements.pdf
http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/sites/default/files/files/PDF/Form990.pdf


On first glance, it looks like wages were about $1.4m on total revenue of $3.6m.  What caught my eye was $10m, in stocks, bonds, and cash.  And, DMan, $63k in total insurance expense, seems kind of low to me.

Perhaps someone more qualified can take a look at the filings and give some highlights/insights.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:32:13 PM by sneoh »
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

JBrochu

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2012, 08:52:14 AM »

The fees really went up after they built that giant visitor center. Well, I'm assuming it's giant but I've never actually been inside and neither has any other climber that I know. I'm assuming we are paying for that thing.

I don't think most people mind paying a fair amount but the current cost is out of control.
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frik

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2012, 10:03:21 AM »

36 K seems low, because it is low. That number is probably for insurance on structures, employees and equipment. I haven't seen one in 20 years, so i can't say for sure, but i imagine a pass has all kinds of disclaimers on it. Between that and the preserve being a non-profit conservation outfit, would make it extremely hard for them to be sued. So i image they don't need anything out of the ordinary in terms of liability insurance. Ironically, under NY law, if the preserve didn't charge an entrance fee they would have zero liability exposure. 
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OldEric

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2012, 10:03:45 AM »

The fees really went up after they built that giant visitor center. Well, I'm assuming it's giant but I've never actually been inside and neither has any other climber that I know. I'm assuming we are paying for that thing.

I don't think most people mind paying a fair amount but the current cost is out of control.

I have been refraining from ranting but all this whining is getting ridiculous.  I've been in that center many times (and not just for the lavish bathrooms) .  It would do you good to do so too - you might actually - gasp - learn some thing about the area - it has a fascinating history and flora and fauna.  The Gunks actually have a little more going for them then "match the rail and huck for the bucket".

As Soon points out the Preserve is non profit and the pie chart of their income and expenses is pretty much in line with other non profits.  But more fundamental is the fact that it is PRIVATE land and all these comparisons to public land climbing areas - from JT to N Conway are meaningless.  What's that big private game preserve in west central NH?  Are all the hunters bitching that it costs more (like $10K more) to get in and hunt there vs. the WMNF?  The Preserve can charge whatever it wants.  If you don't like it don't go.

And as far as the actual cost of climbing there - transportation far out trumps anything else.  Even Al's beloved Prius that he delights in boasting and bragging about is costing him $0.30-0.40 a mile.  Fuel is incidental.  You are deluding yourselves if you think otherwise.
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JBrochu

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2012, 11:08:00 AM »

Since you're so knowledgeable about history maybe you can explain why the Smiley family set up the preserve in the first place.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

OldEric

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2012, 11:29:29 AM »

Since you're so knowledgeable about history maybe you can explain why the Smiley family set up the preserve in the first place.

Go to the visitors' center and learn for yourself.
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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2012, 11:48:01 AM »

So, for single Day Pass, $17 for climber and biker, and $12 for everyone else.
For single Annual Pass, $90 for climber, $70 for biker, and $55 for everyone else.

All things considered, I have to admit $55 is not bad, but $35 climbing 'premium' on top of that is pretty steep. 
If only they would make single Annual pass for climber and biker the same at $70 or $75 .....
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ
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