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[Jeff]

There were quite a few sandbags over the years with guide book ratings at the Gunks; as I've aged, climbs I've done have moved up on the rating scale, so that I surprise myself with the level I've led-- nice   5.10d sounds about right for P38 to me--that thing is thin, pumpy and hard to hang on to protect! BTW-- yes they do get people who pay the fees to stay and climb at The Mohonk House.

[OldEric]

I wonder if they get any takers on their $900.00 package?

My biggest spanking BINTD was on P38. I don't know for sure if I was on the right route but it was 5.9 in my book and aparently is 5.10d in the new book?  Took a bad whip too close to the deck. Ripped a #3 Chiounard soldered wire and was saved inches off the deck by a perfect #2 wire. Upside down, head first looking at a pile of rocks about 18 inches from my eyeballs. No lid.  Think I might have started drinking heavily after that one and called it a day

Shady Lady is 5.9.  Grade inflation or not.

[tradmanclimbz]

Shady Lady?

[sneoh]

I believe Shady Lady is the original name for the climb now more commonly known as P38.
I am sure Eric can give us a history lesson her if he is so inclined.

[tradmanclimbz]

It was P38 in my 1981 Williams guide but I was told by locals that it was actually hard 10? anyways it was a long time ago 1986? and i remember I was mayby 18 to 20 ft up and fell ripping a #3 micro and getting stopped inces from the ground on a#2  Micro.

[eyebolter]

It was shady lady in the blue book, but the original name was P38 I think for the number of aid pieces.

No way that thing is 5.9.

[OldEric]

It was shady lady in the blue book, but the original name was P38 I think for the number of aid pieces.

No way that thing is 5.9.

Ward is correct - about the name not the grade.  Originally "P-38" for the gear list.  When it was freed (late 60'S?) It got renamed "Shady Lady" (just like Transcon Nailway->Freeway).  Eventually Williams reverted the name in more recent books.  A hold has broken at the crux and it probably is EASY 10 now.  But it definitely seemed very nineish when I first did it - 1976.  My first three 9's were Never Neverland, Nosedive and Shady Lady (look in the blue Dick - one true book).  Grade inflation has run rampant and the Gunks have not been immune.

[eyebolter]

Sure Eric there has been grade inflation, but part of that was because all routes 5.9 and harder were crammed into the same grade.  Or do you really think that Recompense is a 9 and Recluse is only 9+ as in my first Cote guide?  And then the same thing happened with 5.10, Foops  and Supercrack were rated 10+, lol.

My first 10 was a 9 when I did it as well, Moby Dick center in Yosemite.  I wouldn't have tried it if it had been a 10.

[tradmanclimbz]

I still grade 9+ as harder than 10a.  Book of Solemity for example should be 10a and not 9+ because it is not sustained enough for 9+ it has 2 relativly short tricky  but not physical cruxes=10a  When I think of 9+ i think of Bloody Mary @ Poko, Perrigan Arette on the Eaglet, Retaliation etc.

[sneoh]

All three are .10 in "my book", Eric!  Wow, 5.9/9+. 

I guess it is the same with Vultures; new people to this area almost always say it is .11, not the .10+ grade in the book.  Keep it at .10+ is my opinion, if not for any other reason other than historical.

[strandman]

$698 a night... Supercrack took Wunsch 37 days.. that's Good thing no hotel at lost City, Persistent took 160 tries.

[sneoh]

Good thing no hotel at lost City, Persistent took 160 tries.

Hence the name is my guess!  Yowzah!!

[strandman]

That's a route for you sneoh.... When, not if you fall off the first move, you fall into the abyss, nice. then a failure on Survival, next to it, is virtually assured.

[sneoh]

I have tried Persistent,  it took me about ten tries (I am not ashamed to say) to just get past the first move, only to totally pump out shortly after that.  Survival?  Forget about it!  One look was enough to convince me that I will never be able to even come close to doing every move on it hanging on a rope, let alone link it.
Funny story - we were at Lost City that day when a number strong Frenchmen and Euros "in town" for the '95 X Games in Newport, RI (when roped climbing and bouldering were included) showed up at Lost City and proceeded to TR several of the hard faces climbs right off Persistent.  Most flashed them or one-hung the routes.  But no one even attempted Survival.  I do not know if they did not know it is there or knew but decided to give it a wide berth. 
We did not at any one time think we were crowding them off Persistent because we figured none of them wanted to have anything to do with a nasty crack. 

[strandman]

YA- my first times at Lost City was with Coach Niland... learned a lot and didn't do anything.. EB's   Later with mallery it was the same thing except harder routes i couldn't do.
On a typical daytrip he would tr persistent,Survival, Clairvoince, then try mantronics.. i would hang