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Author Topic: How wrong am I  (Read 1103 times)

neiceclimber

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How wrong am I
« on: October 02, 2012, 12:29:15 PM »

So there's a kid running around my town replacing anchors and bolts on old climbs. Generally he replaces the bolts in close to the same spot, but has on a few occasions moved the bolts to more favorable locations. He's been called out on this on multiple occasions and seems to have stopped. However, my problem with him is his bolts, they are shit. I've found maybe 15 - 20 placed with loose spinning hangers, bad anchor angles, wobbly drill holes, and general hanger wonkiness. Worse of all the ASCA has given him the bolts. In the beginning, I was letting him know about them and got some type of the same response " oh yeah I was in a rush that day I keep meaning to go back." yesterday was a tipping point for me when I came upon two newly placed anchors from the ASCA, both were easily removed by hand and wrongly orientated. Frustrated I pulled them and threw them in my pack. I'm thinking about heading to a few other spots to see if he fixed them and if not pulling those as well (all have what I consider adequate walkoffs or natural anchors in the vicinity). Then mailing them back to the ASCA with a letter and photos showing the hack job. Am I wrong to do this?
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punxnotdead

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 01:22:40 PM »

What climbs have you noticed this happening?  I know some work has been done at Willard, but they generally seem pretty good......
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strandman

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 01:31:03 PM »

No, you are right for sure. maybe he needs an "education" 

We did a rebolt out here in Co this year and I of 3 people was the least experienced about bolt placing !!
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DMan

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 01:50:14 PM »

What area are you talking about? "My town" could be anywhere and people might be able to chime in more if we had the location.
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frik

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 02:26:14 PM »

You are doing the right thing. If you are in any kind of contact with this guy, you should let him know what you are doing and why. Maybe offer to show him.  Some one has to step up and be an ahole for a good cause.... its the grown up thing to do.
 
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neiceclimber

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 02:41:38 PM »

I decided to omit explaining where the area is as I'm fairly certain 99% of the people on this board will never see these climbs. I also do not want this to turn into some type of Internet outing or bashing of the area or people.

I should also add that most of the people who did the FA's have long moved away, stopped climbing, or are dead so contacting them about the rebolting is not really practical.

Basically, I just want to know if this is an acceptable practice, or did I toss what little good karma I have down the drain?
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JBrochu

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 03:17:56 PM »

I think the better course of action would be for you to offer to show him how to do the job properly. If he declines and continues to place crappy and unsafe bolts then just about any and all means should be used to stop him. That includes outing him and shaming him publicly as much as possible as well as making sure the ASCA is aware that he is clueless when it comes to replacing bolts.

Seriously, the point of replacing old unsafe bolts is to end up with new and safe bolts. 

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DWT

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 03:36:49 PM »

I think the better course of action would be for you to offer to show him how to do the job properly. If he declines and continues to place crappy and unsafe bolts then just about any and all means should be used to stop him. That includes outing him and shaming him publicly as much as possible as well as making sure the ASCA is aware that he is clueless when it comes to replacing bolts.

Seriously, the point of replacing old unsafe bolts is to end up with new and safe bolts.
I agree with Jbrochu.

I think you'd be doing the community a service to teach him the right way.  Clearly, the kid wants to do his part.  I'd sure like to do more for the community, but the backlash scares the shite outta me.  I'm sure cooler heads will prevail in this instance.

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pappy

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 03:39:45 PM »

And people give me a look when I tell them that a bomber nut is always better than a bolt: I know the history of the nut, I know how it was placed. I don't know anything about a bolt I find on some climb. He needs to be told sweetly (he is after all trying to help) that he's doing it wrong and educated. If that doesn't take right away then it needs to be done a lot less sweetly. After all, a bad bolt is worse and more dangerous than a manky cam, at least you don't have an uncritical acceptance of the cam.

A while back there was some blithering idiot in NC that decided that every climb should be bolted roughly every five feet, since it was unjustifiable to risk the danger of any fall. He even put a 45 min. video on how to place a bolt safely on the web, as well as an extravagent topo of his home 'crag' (which was some non-descript bluff in the Piedmont no one had ever heard of that appeared to  be 100' of congealed mud featuring 80' 5.8s with 12-14 bolts each.) Since no one was paying him any attention, he then decided to bolt the first pitch of Sundial Crack, a classic 5.8 at Looking Glass. Needless to say, the NC boys were aghast and furious and in less than 24 hours were up there to chop the bolts, but fortunately they were able to simply pull them out with their fingers. The blew right by sweet and suggested--forcefully--that he should donate his Hilti to the CCC for real anchor replacement.
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frik

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 05:04:52 PM »

Now I've heard everything: "I agree with JBrochu"

What is wrong with you people?
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DWT

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 05:29:50 PM »

Now I've heard everything: "I agree with JBrochu"

What is wrong with you people?
;D
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JBrochu

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 11:55:13 AM »

Now I've heard everything: "I agree with JBrochu"

What is wrong with you people?

Hey now. Based on a very scientific, representative, and non-biased poll 82% of the world agrees with me and only 14% think I'm a bastard.
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strandman

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 12:06:34 PM »

Bad bolts are bad bolts. Doesn't matter who places them.  If you don't want an explanation of how to do it right then you should not be placing them.
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steveclimbs

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2012, 12:23:55 PM »

here is a generic installation video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JI_9ggbmcY

Also read up on Hilti quick bolts.

It isn't rocket science, but most people cut corners, and some people tend to ream the hole, which is stupid. Make sure the hole is blown out well, and torque the bolts to set the wedge sleeve.

I've used 3/8" quick bolts to lift a five hundred pound transformer with block and tackle.  they are strong when installed correctly.
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Admin Al

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Re: How wrong am I
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2012, 05:00:40 PM »

http://www.neclimbs.com/other/bolting/

FWIW I did this page back in 2002. the article itself was written by Dave Kelly, formerly of EMS and now at IME/IMCS. The pictures were taken by Kurt Winkler. That day he and I went out and replaced about a dozen bolts. He taught me a lot about how to place and remove bolts. Also how to cover up old holes if needed.

I'll leave it to you to speculate on where the pictures were taken...
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