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Author Topic: Gunks trip  (Read 4477 times)

frik

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2012, 01:41:10 PM »

OldEic; I think you are agreeing with my original point. RE: Why do they screw us..... because they can.
Hikers, bird watchers, trail runners, peeping toms, and riders have lots of options. Lots of free options. Climbers, especially down there do not.
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OldEric

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2012, 05:10:41 PM »

OldEic; I think you are agreeing with my original point. RE: Why do they screw us..... because they can.
Hikers, bird watchers, trail runners, peeping toms, and riders have lots of options. Lots of free options. Climbers, especially down there do not.

Yes and no.  On the one hand "because they can" = "what the market will bear" - a basic concept of capitalism.  On the other hand going climbing at the Gunks - or anyplace - is pretty much an un-necessary luxury - not in the same vain at supplying food and shelter.  It's your choice to pay for it or not.  I don't think they need to be scrutinized the same way utility companies or health care providers are.  More in tune with restaurants.  Do you go to art museums, how about movies?  the cost of those tickets have typically gone up faster then inflation.  How about lift tickets?  Most ski areas around here ARE on public land and are charging a heck of a lot more then a day pass - some more then an annual pass at the Gunks.

I also don't think - no matter how dig you deep - that you will find any Preserve employee or board member lining his pockets off the $$$ of the little people. 

I do think that the visitor's center is sort of an overboard extravagance.  But if I really cared I would attempt to get more involved - I don't think I have the right to complain in a place like this without having attempted to do something constructive first through the Preserve.
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strandman

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2012, 06:40:16 PM »

reading this- i am listening to dead kennedy's  'kill the poor"  ,, nice song. "fuck the landlord is next
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DLottmann

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2012, 12:29:09 AM »

...
I also don't think - no matter how dig you deep - that you will find any Preserve employee or board member lining his pockets off the $$$ of the little people. 
...

"Wages were about $1.4m on total revenue of $3.6m.  What caught my eye was $10m, in stocks, bonds, and cash.  And, DMan, $63k in total insurance expense, seems kind of low to me."- Sneoh

2.2 million a year in surplus revenue and 10 million in stocks & bonds... and they don't pay any federal income tax as a non-profit... and the AAC pays for an outhouse... and they charge more for climbers, and you want to tell me someone isn't lining their pockets...

OK...
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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2012, 08:55:41 AM »

Actually, I had read the wrong column.  Total revenue for 2010 was $3.8m.  Wages (1.4m) was only a part of total expense which amounted to $2.7m for 2010.  So, the 'excess' is $1.1m.  This amount was added to the accumulated net asset of the Preserve, boosting it from $14 to $15m.
Might the Preserve getting ready for land/property acquisition or a major capital investment project?
Or just a healthy rainy day fund?
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

OldEric

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2012, 09:07:13 AM »

Actually, I had read the wrong column.  Total revenue for 2010 was $3.8m.  Wages (1.4m) was only a part of total expense which amounted to $2.7m for 2010.  So, the 'excess' is $1.1m.  This amount was added to the accumulated net asset of the Preserve, boosting it from $14 to $15m.
Might the Preserve getting ready for land/property acquisition or a major capital investment project?
Or just a healthy rainy day fund?

Land acquisition is always big:


http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/blog/mohonk-preserve-acquire-iconic-new-paltz-lands
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frik

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2012, 09:17:42 AM »

Excellent detective work sneoh. Now we won't be obliged to feel guilty about sneaking in without paying.
 
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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2012, 09:38:16 AM »

Thanks Eric for the update.  Did I guess it or what? :):).  Looks like the Preserve is on a $5 to $8m buying binge.
Thanks Frik.  Back in the 90's, we used to start off the day at left side of The Nears and only move to The Trapps late in the afternoon to avoid the 'rangers' and fees (might have only been $5 then). 

The article Eric pointed us to also mentions acquisition of a huge parcel from the Mohonk Mtn House in 2011.  Is this going to open up more access to Skytop?  Look, I am being wishful, OK?  I still have not been on The Sound and The Fury, ever ......
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

M_Sprague

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2012, 04:58:33 PM »

Who will lead the charge?



The storming of the Mohonk House?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 05:01:04 PM by M_Sprague »
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

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sneoh

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2012, 06:39:11 PM »

Not you or I, Mark, we do not have the necessary ASSETS for the job.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

M_Sprague

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2012, 08:05:33 PM »

I'm not quite sure what the guy going into battle with one sock and no pants was thinking (make the enemy die of laughter?), but it obviously did not work out for him. He must have been a Vulgarian.
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Flotsam

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Re: Gunks trip
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2012, 08:16:24 PM »

As Soon points out the Preserve is non profit and the pie chart of their income and expenses is pretty much in line with other non profits.  But more fundamental is the fact that it is PRIVATE land and all these comparisons to public land climbing areas - from JT to N Conway are meaningless.  What's that big private game preserve in west central NH?  Are all the hunters bitching that it costs more (like $10K more) to get in and hunt there vs. the WMNF?  The Preserve can charge whatever it wants.  If you don't like it don't go.

You also make a little bit of an apple / orange comparison.  The hunting preserves are private, maybe (maybe not) profitable but they pay taxes on the land etc.  The Mohonk Preserve is a non profit 501c(3).  The non profit land trusts that I know of do not charge access but they are far lower profile, no employees, no educational classes but they do purchase land give out grants/scholarships similar to the Mohonk.

Any way it is difficult to draw a comparison there.  For us what is important is the Preserve has a business model that works for them and we get access.  They are expanding land purchases which is great for them and maybe climbers.  I just wish if they need the access fee would be the same for everyone.  I hate feeling miked just because that is what they can get.... I'd be equally annoyed if ski area charge me more as snowboarder because I scrape the snow off the slopes faster than a skier!
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