Author Topic: the next couple of weeks......  (Read 4130 times)

Offline eyebolter

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 07:41:40 PM »
The takers have now outnumbered the makers...we are doomed unless you think people really can get things for free.


Google: "do i qualify" and "how to qualify".............interesting stuff will pop up.

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Offline Flotsam

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2012, 09:08:42 AM »
The takers have now outnumbered the makers...we are doomed unless you think people really can get things for free.
I don't think anyone would disagree with the basic statement but when applied to the current situation it is an over simplification and not completely accurate. 

As a Libertarian, I am not in favor of a single payer system, but I do see how it would reduce costs.   Obamacare will not reduce costs at all; what it will reduce is employment.
While I would have liked something different, I think the general dooms day fears are overblown.  There is a functioning health care system that is very similar to Obamacare in Switzerland.  Where it is compulsory to purchase health insurance which is either done on the individual level or through employment.  Their cost of healthcare is less and unemployment is lower.  I wouldn't say simple correlation is accurate (the swiss have lots of job killing regulations) but it is an example of similar successfully functioning system.  This makes me think if it's not implemented in a bonehead fashion it could succeed.   I guess that depends of if we ever stop arguing about if it should exist in the first place.

Offline JBrochu

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2012, 11:28:22 AM »
The takers have now outnumbered the makers...we are doomed unless you think people really can get things for free.


So who are you including in the "takers" category?

If you're including retired folks collecting social security and disabled vets and people temporarily unemployed and other such people who have paid into the system for a long time (and/or with bodyparts) and it's not exactly fair to label them as takers.

Regarding www.benefits.gov:

It looks to me like benefits.gov may just be a more efficient and cost effective way to help people get answers they need. I took a quick look and it basically handles everything from veterans assistance to social security to medicaid/medicare to research grants, etc. That website probably saves a ton in labor costs versus having people answering phone calls.

I'm not including you in this category because it's pretty clear you actually do care about deficit spending and the debt based on your comments about the military, but tons of people that spout off about this stuff are full of crap. They went off on these awesome rants about spending when Obama took office, but didn't say a peep the prior 8 years when W spent like a drunken sailor. They don't care about the debt: What really gets them fired up is the perception of lazy brown people getting free stuff.

As far as the coming apocalypse: I think you're wrong. It's just not going to happen unless something occurs like the talk about some kind of space storm or maybe a meteor strike that knocks out the grid for years and years. While we're likely not going to return to the levels of prosperity enjoyed during that brief period of time after WW2 when folks like grocery store produce managers (like my grandfather) could own vacation homes, we still have it pretty good.

The challenge now is competing in a global labor force where even skilled/educated labor is often cheap and it's increasingly frowned upon for the developed world to impose their will on less developed nations in order to unfairly enjoy the benefits of their resources. 
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline eyebolter

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2012, 07:46:56 PM »
The takers have now outnumbered the makers...we are doomed unless you think people really can get things for free.


So who are you including in the "takers" category?

If you're including retired folks collecting social security and disabled vets and people temporarily unemployed and other such people who have paid into the system for a long time (and/or with bodyparts) and it's not exactly fair to label them as takers.

As far as the coming apocalypse: I think you're wrong. It's just not going to happen unless something occurs like the talk about some kind of space storm or maybe a meteor strike that knocks out the grid for years and years. While we're likely not going to return to the levels of prosperity enjoyed during that brief period of time after WW2 when folks like grocery store produce managers (like my grandfather) could own vacation homes, we still have it pretty good.

The challenge now is competing in a global labor force where even skilled/educated labor is often cheap and it's increasingly frowned upon for the developed world to impose their will on less developed nations in order to unfairly enjoy the benefits of their resources.


I include everyone getting a government check as a taker, and that includes the "defense (sic)" industry.  I agree, those who paid into SS deserve it, but the plain fact is that our government has already spent every single dime they paid in.  The "trust fund" is crap. They spent it on wars, medicare drug benefits, etc.  Gone.  Nada.

So now my mother's SS is supposed to be paid by younger workers, who can't provide what is due, so the Fed is now creating money out of thin air to pay the difference.

How can they do this?  This gets into the coming apocalypse.  They can do this because the US Dollar is the world's "reserve currency" as per Nixon's Bretton Woods agreement where the US stopped paying debts in gold.  Since then, all transactions for oil purchases from OPEC must be made in US dollars. So, for example, if Brazil wants to buy oil from OPEC they need to convert their currency into US dollars.  You think this inflates the value of the dollar maybe?

This is one of the main reasons for our wars.    Ghadaffi bombed the pan am flight, but when he tried to create a gold based African currency he ended up dead.   The Libyan "rebels' " first action was to create a central bank trading in dollars....not your Princess Lea and Luke Skywalker rebellion that is for sure.

Saddam Hussein was fine when he poison gassed the Kurds and the Iranians, in fact we upped his aid, but some things are just not acceptable to the Empire.  When he started selling oil in Euros.....dead.

And now Iran is "developing WMD's"  I'm sure that it is just a coincidence that Iran is selling oil in yen and bartering with India for food and other goods.

When China and the rest of the world dump the dollar as the world's reserve currency, and they will, you will see what your dollar is really worth. 

The Soviet Union had a wonderful pension plan for everyone.  Then they invaded Afghanistan and went broke.  Sound familiar?
 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 07:57:27 PM by eyebolter »

Offline sneoh

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2012, 08:18:57 PM »
Actually, Iran is hoarding gold because of its own currency woes.
Not to mention the Govt there is probably not pleased to be paid with USD or to pay in USD!!

As I had said, house of cards, everything is just great until toublemakers like Ward show up ..... :):)

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline eyebolter

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2012, 08:25:41 PM »
Actually, Iran is hoarding gold because of its own currency woes.
Not to mention the Govt there is probably not pleased to be paid with USD or to pay in USD!!

As I had said, house of cards, everything is just great until toublemakers like Ward show up ..... :):)

I know, I should stick to rap bolting before a predator drone shows up in my window.

Only kidding...kind of.

I LOVE OBAMA!

Offline sneoh

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2012, 09:54:51 PM »
I LOVE OBAMA!
No, you don't! 
But, tell Ella not to worry about Predator drones. 
Instead, tell her to worry whether she can send Predator the climb before she turns 12 in age!  :)

For better or worse, Obama has been re-elected; 50.1% of popular vote cast, much bigger margin of victory in electoral votes, and he swept ALL 8 "Swing States of 2012". As the saying goes "The People has spoken".

I would not want to be Karl Rove these days!!!



"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline strandman

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2012, 04:20:46 PM »
I bet Rove, limbaugh and others didn't even vote

fuck'm

Offline frik

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2012, 08:45:50 AM »
Iran is not hording gold.... they are buying gold as a means to get around the sanctions. So they can purchase high tech stuff, military equipment, plutonium, used N. Korean subs, porn, whatever with gold rather than the Dinar - which nobody wants.

 As for the social security trust fund.. it is fully funded until 2036 at which point it still won't be empty. After 2036 it won't be able to pay full benefits  without some minor tweaks. It's true the trust fund isn't a vault full of dollar bills, it is US treasuries. You pay into SS, congress takes the money as general revenue and pays the SS trust fund in treasuries.
 

Offline sneoh

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2012, 08:51:24 AM »
Iran is not hording gold.... they are buying gold as a means to get around the sanctions. So they can purchase high tech stuff, military equipment, plutonium, used N. Korean subs, porn, whatever with gold rather than the Dinar - which nobody wants.

 As for the social security trust fund.. it is fully funded until 2036 at which point it still won't be empty. After 2036 it won't be able to pay full benefits  without some minor tweaks. It's true the trust fund isn't a vault full of dollar bills, it is US treasuries. You pay into SS, congress takes the money as general revenue and pays the SS trust fund in treasuries.
 
All correct, Frik.  Thanks for the correction, and more importantly, the clarifications.
The dire state of SS is often (but not always) overstated. That said, I am not sure if it will be around, in roughly the same form, past 2050.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline JBrochu

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2012, 09:28:41 AM »
When China and the rest of the world dump the dollar as the world's reserve currency, and they will, you will see what your dollar is really worth.

China has already started doing this, and India too.

I mean, it's pretty easy for the politicians to manipulate and fool the general population with fear and race baiting, but if this was certain to lead to financial doom, wouldn't the smart money have bailed by now? It's not so easy to keep the smart money in the dark about what's really going down imo.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 09:30:51 AM by JBrochu »
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Offline M_Sprague

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Offline Jeff

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Offline eyebolter

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Re: the next couple of weeks......
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2012, 05:07:56 PM »
Iran is not hording gold.... they are buying gold as a means to get around the sanctions. So they can purchase high tech stuff, military equipment, plutonium, used N. Korean subs, porn, whatever with gold rather than the Dinar - which nobody wants.

 As for the social security trust fund.. it is fully funded until 2036 at which point it still won't be empty. After 2036 it won't be able to pay full benefits  without some minor tweaks. It's true the trust fund isn't a vault full of dollar bills, it is US treasuries. You pay into SS, congress takes the money as general revenue and pays the SS trust fund in treasuries.
 

Social security is NOT fully funded until 2036.   Treasuries are basically IOU's; as such they are hardly an asset to the nation that issues them; they might as well not exist ( How is an IOU to yourself an asset?).

The government is currently paying SS benefits as if the "trust fund" did not exist (since it doesn't): by taxing and printing money.  SS is already paying out more than it takes in.

By 2036 you might be able to buy a loaf of bread with your SS check, if you even get one.

As Alan Greenspan said before Congress: "We can guarantee Social Security benefits as long as you like.  What we cannot guarantee is the purchasing power of those benefits."


 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 05:35:04 PM by eyebolter »

Offline M_Sprague

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