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Author Topic: WOW!  (Read 1407 times)

tradmanclimbz

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WOW!
« on: October 19, 2012, 10:35:12 AM »

« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 10:37:30 AM by tradmanclimbz »
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old_school

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 10:59:06 AM »

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"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

eyebolter

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 01:24:45 PM »

Thanks Tradman, awesome article. 

Hard for me not to be judgemental about a 12 year old girl.  I've been taking Ella out the the crags (did a new boulder problem Wednesday with her napping in the tent), and I know people think that I'M irresponsible, so who am I to say.  But there are too many ways to die on Half Dome in the winter, never mind the climb, there is the approach, the descent and the weather.  How about the pic of her in sneakers hanging on the tat ropes stuck in ice on the death slab?  And then he left her at the base of the cables to go get the stuff stashed at the face.  I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm hoping Ella is into sport climbing until she's old enough to know better.

 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 01:28:59 PM by eyebolter »
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 01:34:14 PM »

The approach and decent look sketchy as heck. The one spot where the fixed ropes were frozen under. if they did not have some sort of belay there it could have been death for certain. On the otherhand that Kiddo had  no Jumars  and it looks like she free  :climbed the whole thing and her dad is world class..... Still would NOT want to have to try and explain that TR to Mom.....  :-\
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DLottmann

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 06:12:01 PM »

I am inspired, shocked, scared, and in dis-belief by that TR... so awesome... but so on the edge... but who's to judge I guess...

If I was to raise an eyebrow it would have been on leaving her for 1.5 hours... that... welll... it all worked out....
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triguy

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 08:40:45 PM »

My biggest concern is how she would handle the situation if her dad got hurt.
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Admin Al

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 09:00:41 PM »

This does not seem very cool IMNSHO
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xcrag_corex

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 11:16:47 PM »

impressive little girl.....though stashing the daughter definitely sketched me out... i would be way worried....hahah
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 12:34:03 AM »

Yea! the part that ain't cool is that 12 year old girl kicking most of our arses :-[

yea. I do hear you. It scared the crap out of me reading the story but on the otherhand that kiddo probly leads 5.12 trad...
According to C mac dad is one of those world class big wall free climber guys who somehow sliped under the radar...
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xcrag_corex

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 09:45:40 AM »

smart thinking on his part.....building a rope-gun for his golden years...
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lucky luke

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 11:47:46 AM »

  And then he left her at the base of the cables to go get the stuff stashed at the face.  I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm hoping Ella is into sport climbing until she's old enough to know better.

I just finish the book on the ascent of women in K2. I struggle with two mentality. One is selfish: I want to keep my daughter like we protect a cat that we own...and the second his also selfish: she is the perfect second, I can bring her where I want to go!!!

As I think as a father who want the best for a child...I will look at the evolution of the situation. What his her background in climbing. It is not really her first climb. She did a very hard route and, if you look at the photo, her father take shot at many places. She still look calm and happy. She wasn't in the position of an haulbag that there father tow to the top. As she know that she is able to do big think at twelve, and have a lot of possibility, is she going to think that she is able to do big think at school. I think so. Her father open her mind to a wonderfull futur. It can hae been in an other activity like scarving wood too. Manipulating the sharp knife is some thing that need a lot of dexterity. My father cut a vessel on his hand and went to the hospital as he was doing a job in our house. So, the danger is relative.

As I think as a father who want the best for a child...I must look at my limit. Some father have very short limit. The walk to the bottom of the half dome trail is about twenty minutes and going back the same. Bear...in winter....bear sleep in winter and there is no danger for her at all. So, if you do sport climbing, you don't have all that knowledge of the danger. In that story, his father led all the half dome in a day. It was there second try and the weather was really warm. His daughter talk about the danger of the climb and the father knew what to do to secure her in the traverse of the snow. The limit of the father was way bigger than the chalenge of the climb. As a father with limit knowledge, you never see solution, when to go back, when it is enought. A good father want to be the hero of his kid, but not at all price. A good father won't bring her daughter on some thing over his limit.

So, we have the upper limit, ability of the father, and the lower limit, capacity of the twelve year girl to learn from the experience. And a good father have to bring her daughter in some think between.

What about father who bring there daugther in some think to hard for her. As a guy climb 5.12 in a gym, 5.11 in sport and have to change the rating of diedral to 5.10 b to keep his ego at the same level, One can understand that there is a problem. Read the thread and you will spot those guy. In general, what they are scared to do his too dangerous to make for any body. They always cry about keeping the people at the bottom at the first wind and are looking for perfect condition. when an accident happen, they are happy: "you see, they never practice and when they want it so much that they try it in bad weather...they have an accident" Don't get out of the house...danger is every where.

Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.   
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DLottmann

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 02:18:11 PM »

...
Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.

Your woman would have be right, it would have been dangerous with all that bikini clad eye candy...

« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 02:20:16 PM by DMan »
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lucky luke

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 06:30:44 PM »

...
Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.

I would have prefer that you focus on that line:
Quote
So, we have the upper limit, ability of the father, and the lower limit, capacity of the twelve year girl to learn from the experience. And a good father have to bring her daughter in some think between.
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ELM

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 07:39:29 PM »

   Look...we can all second guess this Dad. I know I have done things with my daughters that have raised an eyebrow. Backpacking in -10 was one I can think of.
   He knows his daughter. It does look like he pushed her limit...he always sounded like he knew he was going to. Yes they could have had more gear to handle x,y and z: yet that extra gear many have been to much too.
   He did stow his daughter in a spot I may not have chosen. What made me smile was she had slept while he was gone. You can not get a nervous/anxious kid to sleep no matter what! Again...he knows her.
    They both had a great experiance that they will remember forever: nothing better than that.
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lucky luke

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Re: WOW!
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 09:15:24 PM »

   Look...we can all second guess this Dad. I know I have done things with my daughters that have raised an eyebrow. Backpacking in -10 was one I can think of.

So, we agree on the idea.

Just want to know reaction like this one, from "Smaller kids belaying adults (multi-pitch)"... andyposter76

Quote
No matter now good you are as a climber, if you are younger than 12 years old, you get bored and antsy. You get hungry, cranky, tired and you don't problem solve like an adult. Therefore, if you are being taken up a long multi pitch route, there should be an adult with you at belays to make sure you aren't dehydrated, etc.

and Dman
Quote
The other day I saw a father/son team on Whitehorse. The father was leading the dike route, and the son, I'm guessing around 6-9, was struggling to keep up with the belay (double ropes it appeared from below).
[...]
There are two main issues of concern IMO:

1) Obvious weight difference. [...]so if the leader falls there is a good chance for belayer injury.

2) Little fingers. I can imagine a kid getting his hand stuck in a belay device [...]

The last picture of wow! video...isn't it a young kid between 6 to 9 years?

and I don't suggest to any body to bring a child in a multi pitch route, I just think at how and when to take a decision to...
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