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Author Topic: Where's the best layback in NH?  (Read 3301 times)

frik

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 04:07:53 PM »

Bingo bubb.
Add that together with Duet Direct right next door for a sweet time. Might as well throw in Slow & Easy as it's right there, definitely slow, but not easy.
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xcrag_corex

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2012, 06:33:57 PM »

Raven looks awesome!!!! Definitely on my tick list for next year :)
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lucky luke

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2012, 09:07:22 AM »

What do you think he can learn in working a technique at expert level?
Closer to perfection in that particular technique, for one thing.
One progresses not only by learning new techniques but also improving upon the ones one already knows (but not so well that there is no more room left for improvement).

I think that at expert level, using a combinaison of technique togheter is the main point. I agree that in sport, you learn by imitation, that means trying hard move and trying to reproduce a movement by falling number of times...and trying an other movement to success. Your progression is faster, you can do it without a lot of training and work a route number of time. Emulation, competition between people are more important and stimulate the climber to try hard things.

In trad, the goal is more to free from the bottom up. So you have to understand how your body is place in the space and see the hole to anticipate the good sequence without loosing to much energy to finish the route and without falling. In trad, it is more important to have a deep understanding of the technique. For that reason, we climb at a lower level than in sport. 

One move in quebec, that only one person can do corectly in my knowledge, conrad, is a double side layback. You begin a layback in a crack right shoulder close to the rock and finish left shoulder close to the rock. Between that, you use a barn door effect to have the momentum to stay on the rock. I had tryed direct finish of "faux quelqu'un qu'il la fasse" a couple of time and was very close to make it...meaning that there is less rock to climb above me than under me.

In the sport thread, the last three topic count around 600 person who read the thread, in trad section...this topic had more than 600 person reading the topic. I can be a bad guy and ask the question: is sport so boring that people don't follow there thread? It is not the case, the meaning of my reflection/reflexion note was to understand the problem and to ask politely expert climber to understand that they were beginer ounce upon of time and to write for people of all level of knowledge...and write thing that is associate with sport climbing in the sport section so you won't demotivate "weaker", at your understanding, climber who don't want to climb with a sport ethic. Edlinger said: the only think that a beginer can imitate corectly from and exxpert is to put is hand on a chalk bag (traduction). For me, the smile of a trad beginer climber who just made the 5.5 move at the top of lake view, canon, is as important as the smile of an expert doing vmc direct onsight.
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sneoh

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2012, 02:59:41 PM »

Very entertaining, Champ but not enlightening. 
I bet a fair number of people read this thread for its entertainment value! :)  I count myself among them.
I believe, except for aid, the goal of all forms of rock climbing is to move "move to free from the bottom up.", as you said.  Any climb, sport or trad or mixed, is not considered climbed unless there is no hanging, aiding, or resting on rope/pro involved in the ascent. 

Nuff' said, I think I am going to find myself a nasty crack to learn hard laybacking on, like any sport weenie would!! :):)
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

strandman

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2012, 03:59:58 PM »

for the billionth time--- it's climbing !!! It doesn't matter if it's sport or trad.. IT DOESN'T MATTER !!!

You can;t get more satisfaction from a sport/trad technique- they are the same--- it's climbing
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sneoh

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2012, 04:47:02 PM »

well said, John.  +1.  No argument from me.
Hope everything with the hip goes well for you,
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

strandman

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2012, 05:02:46 PM »

Thanks.. it's still a month away and i can't wait.. looking foward to rehab
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strandman

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2012, 06:29:59 PM »

A really  good layback/stemming problem is Gill's Groove at Sundown. It's pretty hard  but.. way good
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lucky luke

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2012, 07:50:34 PM »

It doesn't matter if it's sport or trad.. IT DOESN'T MATTER !!!

It doesn't matter...for you

It is always more logic and safer to explain the difference between sport and trad and let the people understand the similtude...

The fact that many people don't know the difference is obvious.
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apbt1976

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2012, 12:07:58 AM »

OMFG CHAMP LET THE DAM TRAD VRS. SPORT THING GO. AYNONE WHO ACTUALLY CLIMBS GETS YOUR POINT. IF THEY START CLIMBING AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BY THE END OF WEEK TWO OR THREE ALL YOU EXPLAINING IS NOT GOING TO AMOUNT TO SH8T ANYWAY..

It doesn't matter if it's sport or trad.. IT DOESN'T MATTER !!!

It doesn't matter...for you

It is always more logic and safer to explain the difference between sport and trad and let the people understand the similtude...

The fact that many people don't know the difference is obvious.
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lucky luke

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2012, 08:11:32 AM »


I bet a fair number of people read this thread for its entertainment value! :)  I count myself among them.

SA a well know climber who climb before the spoprt climbing generation said: "I saw someone layback the entire Black Crack pitch, on Cathedral about 2 months ago. Couldn't believe it. Probably a grade harder that way. At least you can rest by jamming a knee in once in a while."

I am not going to layback black crack, even if it is on my stick list for off with, but the question is why should I jam my knee ounce in a while?

a beginer won't know it, but as you work a technique, you will have to find rest places because laybacking is pumpy.

This thing above  is entertainement


OMFG CHAMP LET THE DAM TRAD VRS. SPORT THING GO.                                           stop the interaction between people

I think I am going to find myself a nasty crack to learn hard laybacking on, like any sport weenie would!!                humiliating

Glad somebody mentioned Screaming Yellow Zonkers. The hardest moves on that route                          beta, with no knowledge

In the last phrase, it could have been interesting to say climb to the crux and describe many technique and to ask how you can choose one of them without falling, on sight.




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punxnotdead

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2012, 10:23:00 AM »

Ugh! Thanks D for mentioning this thread and the endless blathering of Champ. When will any of his posts be shorter than 3 paragraphs?  Maybe if they were more clear, they would be more concise.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 11:52:26 AM by punxnotdead »
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someone dropped a steamer in the gene pool

"climbing with a deep knowledge of what we are doing is what we all want to climb high and safe" Champoing

strandman

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2012, 12:03:44 PM »

i guess that most of us are too stupid to know the diff. After all, it's obvious......Champ, I have climbed for a long time, in a lot of places and climbing is climbing. Techniques can be used for all types of climbing,, sport,, trad,, whatever..  Flagging wasn't invented yesterday.. Handjamming wasn't either

 :P
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lucky luke

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2012, 06:42:52 PM »

Techniques can be used for all types of climbing,, sport,, trad,, whatever..  Flagging wasn't invented yesterday.. Handjamming wasn't either

Fugue second pitch, after an undercling, you have to step left on a layback, the last pro is a couple of rp's lower behind. A fall an you finish in a 5.9diedral. A bolt just before the layback and you change the route totaly.
Layback still puzzle many people because the pro is hard to place and often it is place without eyeball it. This make the move harder and mastering the technique of laybacking more important. There is way to move to see if your pro placement is good that you don't need in sport. In the thread of hanold, still in the more interesting trad section, hannold took a fall of close to fourty feet. He show a clear acceptation of the danger and know how to avoid it as he felt safely.
I climb better after I train sport in the spring. Contrarly at most of the climber, I don't climb higher level in sport than in trad. In general sport climber climb two grade lower in trad. I climb better when I do aid climbing in the fall. I plan my season so I am at my best at the end of july...and weaker in september when I go to the yosemite.
It is good to be able to climb 5.9- 5.10 in a trad route in yosemite, to onsight it. And, with more strenght in my hand, I will be able to climb higher grade.   
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danf

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Re: Where's the best layback in NH?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2012, 08:18:04 PM »

I bet a fair number of people read this thread for its entertainment value! :)
I gave up a couple pages ago, I can't make sense of half of what luke/champ is trying to argue about....
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