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Author Topic: Patrick Edlinger est mort  (Read 3532 times)

ed_esmond

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2012, 09:45:58 PM »

drinking problem is a very big one and Edlinger had it. Competition, trying to show that you are better than him by climbing side by side, and a bad day is not a reason for smoking and do bad things. He his a human an I respect what he did for climbing.

lukey...

maybe i'm reading you wrong, but don't you think your "i'm so superior to all of you because i have the 'true trad' ethic..."  is getting more than a just a little old?

as in: very, very, very old?

you're just "as competitive" as anyone else with your "holier than thou 'trad is still a different ethic'" crap...

i know you'll deny it, but you think you're so much more evolved than the rest of us.

basically you've been saying: "you are all so fck-ed up, and i'm not..."

and if that's not "being competitive, (and painfully self-absorbed)" i don't know what is....

somewhat respectfully,
ed e
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pragmatic: (adj) dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories.

lucky luke

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2012, 11:42:12 PM »

But competitiveness among climbers is not limited to sport climbing.  There is competitiveness in trad too I am sorry to break it to you, especially for "trophy" climbs, just as in sport, mountaineering, and ice. 
A little friendly competition is good for motivation and advancing the sport.  I hang around with climbers, male and female who are all competitive in a friendly way and we definitely elevate each other's "game" in a good way.

I agree with you that emulation is a great think and that it exist in trad. It is an old discussion. The text of the "manifeste of 21" signed by Edlinger discussed of that and they clearly identify that kind of competition amount alpinist who, to have founding to climb, will kill themselve in trying very hard thing.

The text of the 21 was wrote that the institulization of the competition will change the motivation of the climber. With competition, the game will be to became better than the other. Every think will be good to win: humiliation, insult... Look at the text of ed esmond above: "i" as I  so superior; I have the true ethic; very very very old; In reading that, do you thing that you "definitely elevate each other's "gamme"?

In the manifeste of the 21 they are not for competition because they think that the activity most be use to have a better knowledge of ourselve. It is wrote to favorise personal development and autonomy. A 5.6 climber is as good as a 5.9 one. But a 5.9 one will bring the 5.6 one to discover new route, new technique or just be friend because they have fun. They never say that competition is not good. It is the institutionalization of the competition that is bad and it is actually what is happening.

In other post, some climber told me that Edlinger was not a sport climber because he do a 5.11+ bare feet. But "smart pig" described virtually a sport ethic in his post where the climber hang on a bolt pull themselve and try against and against a move. It is fantastic to see a route like "take it or leave it" and even as a trad climber, I dream to be able to climb it (pratically impossible for me). I respect a hero in sport climbing

In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).

One other negative aspect with sport climbing is that you try to impose your ethic of climbing by eliminating the trad ethic(humiliating, insult...) In fact, you ridiculise the ethic that your father and the father of your father make to resolve a problem what ever it is: 5.6 or 5.12. Laughing at other is the most easiest thing that an idiot can do. Building an ethic, or two ethic of climbing to allow more people to participate and have fun to climb is not a stupid task. Particularly if it is to allow some people to use climbing for personnel development and be more competant at work. One of my friend had a job when he "go for it" in an interview as we do when we anticipate a move in trad.   
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OldEric

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2012, 09:02:42 AM »


In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).
 

I think its quite a stretch to suggest that all these negative - to us anyway - things are an aspect of sport climbing.  I was knocking around the Alps - Cham etc. before most of you were born - certainly before any concept of sport climbing existed - and believe me  they were peeing, pooping and smoking willy nilly.  It's a cultural thing.  Now if LL wants to start ragging on the French that could be entertaining for awhile.
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DGoguen

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2012, 12:13:39 PM »

believe me  they were peeing, pooping and smoking willy nilly. 

I think quite a few folks round here been smoking the Willy Nilly.
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Jeff

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2012, 04:55:51 PM »

Just keep your lighter away from my willy >:(
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strandman

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 06:52:23 PM »

Al- you better get the lock ready... just saying
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lucky luke

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 08:10:45 PM »


In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).

I think its quite a stretch to suggest that all these negative - to us anyway - things are an aspect of sport climbing. 

I climbed for a while in cathedral and canon and, in my knowledge, the problem did not exist even when there was more than hundred climbers in the cliff some day.

The problem of back packing, take in take out, is relatively recent. Any way, if Sneoh wrote about it, it is because there were a problem and it is possible to resolve it. There are some good will.

Who are those who say that an ethic is so perfect that it can't improve? In that way, the trad ethic and sport ethic have advantage to growth and be more distinct to bring diversity and more people to different cliff, create job and tourism???

Learn sport, climb hard by doing thing at the limit of your capacity and climb trad and understand that if you go at the limit of your capacity you can be kill and be humiliate and insult because you climb easy stuff is maybe not the better way to learn trad.

Have fun to climb, when tope rope is to easy, try aid climbing, try to lead easy stuff, increase your knowledge and training to be able to climb new mountain where you can escape the competitivity of your work, increase your grade to be able to climb with new friends...can also be a way to learn trad. 
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sneoh

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Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 10:23:15 PM »

I think the TP issue at Rumney has gotten to be less of a problem in 2012, partly to do with raised awareness and partly to do with more porta-johns (two each in each parking lot).  Erosion?  Still a bit of a problem (many visitors) but I do not think the situation has gotten a lot worse in general.  Hey, I was hiking around in Acadia NP this summer and I lost count of the number of "hikers" going off established trails and making new ones for their own convenience.  Same deal at RMNP 20 years ago when I visited.  In other words, the land is going get strained and abused when it gets a lot of visitors and climbers (both trad and sport).


One other negative aspect with sport climbing is that you try to impose your ethic of climbing by eliminating the trad ethic(humiliating, insult...) In fact, you ridiculise the ethic that your father and the father of your father make to resolve a problem what ever it is: 5.6 or 5.12. Laughing at other is the most easiest thing that an idiot can do. Building an ethic, or two ethic of climbing to allow more people to participate and have fun to climb is not a stupid task. Particularly if it is to allow some people to use climbing for personnel development and be more competant at work.
Champ, in the past, did a few sport climbers make fun of you or your climbing?  Did that scar you and made you so much against sport climbing in general?  There are bad people in everything, sport climbing does not have a monopoly on that.  Heck, some of the biggest a&^%holes I have come across climbing I encountered while trad climbing at the East Coast mecca of trad - The Gunks. 
It does not make you more or less 'ethical' (whatever that means) or care more or less about the environment if you clip bolts!
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ
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