Author Topic: belay anchors  (Read 1707 times)

Offline the_other_andy

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2012, 07:38:30 PM »
I use the PS hangers and ring anchors also out here but allways spray them as they are super bright.

Offline strandman

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2012, 09:50:52 PM »
I'm thinking hunter orange

Offline nuts

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 11:37:03 PM »

I prefer Fixe SS ring anchors.  As Mark mentioned, 6-8 inches apart horizontally.  Any further and ropes will have a tendency to twist.  I also use construction grade 3/8 x 3 1/2" SS bolts.  Embedment does effect strength despite rock type, a bolt embeded in 2" of rock is twice as strong as a bolt embeded in 1 1/2" of rock.  Non stainless bolts can fail sooner than you'd think mostly due to water contact with parts of the bolt we can't see-- it doesn't take much.  Those old non stainless 1/4" bolts you guys used to use have now tested to have failing strengths within 1 year of placement.

You can buy SS bolts at confast.com for minimal cost.  $78 per box of 50 for the Chinese variety online, or call and order American made bolts (from American materials) for $2 a pop, which make for a great set-up with the Fixe hardware.

 If you're ordering large quantities of Fixe hardware, make a phone call to Fixe.
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Offline M_Sprague

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2012, 03:23:46 AM »
There are various grades of SS, Chris. That price would be sweet, but makes me very suspicious. Make sure you check the spec sheet if you haven't already. There is a big thread on bolts over on MP that you may have seen with comments from metallurgical types and people who are actually designing and building climbing bolts http://www.mountainproject.com/v/bolts-bolts-bolts/107638017__1 You will have to wade through a lot to find the pertinent posts, but it is worth it. Basically, it doesn't sound like it is possible to make a quality SS bolt with the reliability needed for climbers that could be any where close to that low. Quality control is also an issue that costs money.

I too have heard that the length of the bolt can be more of a factor than 3/8 to 1/2" width. When not using big fat glue-ins,  I use at least 2 3/4" long bolts in bomber granite, preferably longer  if overhanging.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 03:42:27 AM by M_Sprague »
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Offline pappy

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2012, 02:09:38 PM »
Embedment does effect strength despite rock type, a bolt embeded in 2" of rock is twice as strong as a bolt embeded in 1 1/2" of rock.  Non stainless bolts can fail sooner than you'd think mostly due to water contact with parts of the bolt we can't see-- it doesn't take much.  Those old non stainless 1/4" bolts you guys used to use have now tested to have failing strengths within 1 year of placement.


That's interesting. I can't think of any vectors where the depth of the bolt would make any difference on vertical and less than vertical ground. I'm interested if you have any info.

As to the 1/4ers, I've nearly vomited at how easily some 1/4" buttonheads came out when I've replaced them. That said, remember that the point was always just to reach the top, not set it up for everyone else, so a year is perfectly adequate (although I've never placed any 1/4" bolts.) It is still a superior experience for me to lead a new route ground up placing my self drives by hand (ensuring that a bolt only goes in where nerve and ability fail). If the route later becomes popular and someone wants to replace a bolt in the same place, then knock yourself out. But somewhere along the way people (generally those who don't do new routes) seemed to come to the idea that it is the FA's job to set up the route for everyone else. It is not. If that's what turns you on, then fine, but really the FA's only 'job' is to demonstrate that the line goes and the maximum amount of gear required to do it.
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Offline JBrochu

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 02:23:34 PM »
But somewhere along the way people (generally those who don't do new routes) seemed to come to the idea that it is the FA's job to set up the route for everyone else. It is not. If that's what turns you on, then fine, but really the FA's only 'job' is to demonstrate that the line goes and the maximum amount of gear required to do it.

Two of the most prolific new route setters that post on this forum have often expressed the idea that the FA party should consider subsequent ascents when setting up routes.

 

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Offline strandman

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Re: belay anchors
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2012, 05:02:06 PM »
But somewhere along the way people (generally those who don't do new routes) seemed to come to the idea that it is the FA's job to set up the route for everyone else. It is not. If that's what turns you on, then fine, but really the FA's only 'job' is to demonstrate that the line goes and the maximum amount of gear required to do it.

Two of the most prolific new route setters that post on this forum have often expressed the idea that the FA party should consider subsequent ascents when setting up routes.
At least I'm not in that group  ;)

Fixed gear should be well placed.. flush to the rock, in solid rock, etc and belays MUST be solid. other than that.... :P