NEClimbs.com forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Reading the forum on your cell phone? There's an easier way. We've enabled a Tapatalk app that makes browsing the forum a whole lot easier. Check it out in the iPhone or Android store if you don't own it already.

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14   Go Down

Author Topic: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope  (Read 4970 times)

sneoh

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1810
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #180 on: December 09, 2012, 07:37:44 PM »

Remember LL thr f/a of Mordor Wall was well before sport/trad.. back when it was called "CLIMBING"
Damn straight. 
Remember that a significant number of 'classic' trad routes in NH and at The Gunks were first ascended with a little aid and only done free (FFA) later.  Times change, values and ethics evolve.  Do you use SLCD?  Not too long ago, some consider that cheating.  Just go climb something and be honest to yourself how and why you did the climb!  Way more important to be true to your own values and be at peace with them than to convince others!!

Logged

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3671
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #181 on: December 09, 2012, 07:49:29 PM »

 trad routes everywhere were done with aid BINTD. weather it be the shoulder stand of full blown standing in aiders it was all about upward progress.  Heck I don't even feel like I am truely trad climbing unless I am standing in aiders hand drilling :-*
Logged

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4184
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #182 on: December 09, 2012, 09:46:53 PM »

and a bunch of bolts have been added for free climbing attempts. free trumps aid so that is legal....

Adding bolts to free a route is generally complete bullshit
Logged

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3671
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #183 on: December 09, 2012, 10:00:15 PM »

It might be BS INYOP but it's how it's done.   Horses are out of the barn on that one....
Logged

lucky luke

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1247
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #184 on: December 09, 2012, 11:01:03 PM »

If it is a trad cliff I will do the FA ground up but I will fix it if nessicary. If the bolts are not in the right places due to whatever reasons  I will fix or add bolts to my own route.

If "necesary" could it be different in trad and in sport? Down east, canon: run it out up left across a clean slab (5.10R).

There is an evolution between static rope where the belay most run, the use of fall factor to know how long the belay most run, the kermantel rope where we have to know how to fall safely and the distance of travel, The use of piton, hard to drive in and necessitated a planification of the route to use just the necessary to come back in the valley, The use of stopper and cam to replace piton.

The next part of the evolution is where the trad climber made a mistake. When bolt appears, bolt was consider as the last option. The classification of A-5 can't be done in first free ascent because there is nothing. Trad climber allow the use of bolt on that situation. Considering bolting as cheating was a good reason to laught at those scary people who, when they pe in there short in trad, use bolt. It is a mistake of trad climber because that part of the evolution of climbing make a clear distinction about two ethics. Those people who like hard, fluid move at hard level was not necessary scare people. There was very good climber, like P. Edlinger, who can teach technique to trad climber and bring a new ethic with is own evolution to climbing. Bouldering, with V-0 to V-9, is also and other ethic. But the climber don't try to appropriate the cliff like sport do: insulting and intimidating people.

So, trad climber have to be good in many skill, like an house boulder and a driver of a manual car. They use bolt in the last necessity. A route like down east is a chalenge where we don't have to change the route, but change the climber: When I will be ready, I will do it...and if it is never, I won't did it.

I can understand that, for a sport climber, 5.10 b is just a formality. You climb 5.12, so there is no chalenge to climb a 5.10...put a bolt (like in crack in the wood) and any stupid climber will be able to do it. But training technique far way from a route is not in the ethic of sport, doing a perfect hard move with style is more important. Sport climber work a route, not the technique. Down east is just a step to the success) (I am sorry, even if I try to find what you like in sport, I don't, so I think that I am not very motivating for sport climber)   

To place the bolt, you insult us, said that it is dangerous, etc. You never talk about two ethics and the training that trad climber must do to do the route. Go to the top, fix a rope, try it many times, do it.  We have a route like down east in Quebec. I said that I will never climb it. I did it two times actually and two variations...And, when I made it, I was very proud because it was the result of a long training, of a work on myself and an honest evaluation of my skill as a climber.

 
 

 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:09:33 PM by lucky luke »
Logged

DMan

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3909
    • My Guiding Blog
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #185 on: December 10, 2012, 07:19:14 AM »

You should write a book... Your observations are mind blowing
Logged

sneoh

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1810
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #186 on: December 10, 2012, 08:40:16 AM »


But the climber don't try to appropriate the cliff like sport do: insulting and intimidating people.
Do you have names of these bad people?  Let's have the names!  Let's change their ways!


Sport climber work a route, not the technique.
Wow, pretty bold and sweeping statement; going to raise a few eyebrows.
So, strong climbers onsight .14a route while hanging one's own draws are devoid of technique?

Logged

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

JBrochu

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 966
  • Doing God's work
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #187 on: December 10, 2012, 08:51:33 AM »


...To place the bolt, you insult us...




Logged
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4184
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #188 on: December 10, 2012, 09:27:08 AM »

Lukw- please stop it about Crack In the Woods. You have not done the route, the suggested bolt is to firm up a shitty anchor and will not affect the climbing in any way.
Any "stupid" climber will still be able to do it  (your words , not mine"

Trad- i can't think of to many NE aid routes that got bolted to  do the ffa's ?/  a couple on Warlock, some on Seventh Sojourn......certainly not Armaggeddon, Cecile or candidus
Logged

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3671
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #189 on: December 10, 2012, 09:31:17 AM »

Mordor....     pretty much standard procedure in Yosemite allong with chipping holds :D
Logged

old_school

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2274
  • "Climb Now, Work Later."
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #190 on: December 10, 2012, 09:40:58 AM »

Isn't this how Religion got started?? And look where that has gotten us   :-\
Logged
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3671
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #191 on: December 10, 2012, 09:43:08 AM »

Of course adding bolts to aid climbs to free them is totally dependant on the situation. If the FA drilled a line of bat hooks accross a 5.13 slab because they were not good enough to climb the slab free it is perfectly reasonable for a BETTER CLIMBER to come along and fill a few of those holes with bolts and then free climb that section that was completly contrived and Chipped by the FA party.
Logged

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4184
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #192 on: December 10, 2012, 09:50:33 AM »

Mordor ??? Not P1 or the roof

The second pitch ain;t going free in this lifetime

Not as much bolting/chipping in the Valley as you might think. The Hubers don't go there anymore
Logged

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3671
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #193 on: December 10, 2012, 09:57:55 AM »

Seems that I read on this board  that Mordor had sprouted bolts. As far as chipping goes anyone who drills a bathook or trenches a hook is chipping. Anyone who pounds a pin is chipping. You can't have it both ways except in fantisy land. If you condone nailing and hard aid you can not bitch about free climbing bolts..  Simply makes zero sense :-*
Logged

ed_esmond

  • NEClimbs Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 147
  • if you can't laugh at yourself..
Re: 5.9/5.10 Trad Routes for Projecting via Self-Belayed Toprope
« Reply #194 on: December 10, 2012, 10:03:07 AM »

Isn't this how Religion got started?? And look where that has gotten us   :-\

i don't think "religion" or even "god" is a problem.

they're both great concepts that go wrong when people start thinking they're "the chosen ones" who know the "one TRUE god" and everyone who doesn't think exactly the same way "insults" and "humiliates" them....

that sort of thinking has gotten us where we are today.

ed



Logged
pragmatic: (adj) dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories.
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.153 seconds with 23 queries.