NEClimbs.com forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Reading the forum on your cell phone? There's an easier way. We've enabled a Tapatalk app that makes browsing the forum a whole lot easier. Check it out in the iPhone or Android store if you don't own it already.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: John Long decks at gym  (Read 3733 times)

tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3816
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2012, 06:35:43 PM »

the math still does not lie. you can't beat the odds forever and the house always wins....
Logged

eyebolter

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2012, 06:45:00 PM »

I agree with Tradman Mark, "ease of untieing" is the last thing I'm worried about when tieing in.

I WANT my knot to be hard to untie.
Logged

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4535
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2012, 06:47:20 PM »

Again EYE- agreed.  of course i never fall so...

I used to use the double fishermans for raps-- now there's a knot to untie
Logged

eyebolter

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2012, 06:50:19 PM »

Again EYE- agreed.  of course i never fall so...

I used to use the double fishermans for raps-- now there's a knot to untie

I used to use the one and a half fisherman for tieing into based on a chouinard catalog in the 70"s.  Almost impossible to untie if you take a hard fall.

Frankly the figure eight is not hard to untie unless you fall multiple times with no rope out and really weld the knot.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:53:28 PM by eyebolter »
Logged

sneoh

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1926
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2012, 07:33:05 PM »

Frankly the figure eight is not hard to untie unless you fall multiple times with no rope out and really weld the knot.
Agreed, especially if you do the Mrs. Eye (or "Figure-9") thing.

I used to use the double fishermans for raps-- now there's a knot to untie
I used to do this too but I switched to double Figure-8 (a little faster for me to tie) or EDK if there is a danger of getting the knot stuck in a crack (read Red Rocks!).  EDK freaks me out a little though.
Logged

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

JBrochu

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1018
  • Doing God's work
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2012, 09:20:32 PM »

Another advantage of the figure eight is most/all climbers can easily visually confirm if another climbers eight is finished properly. I for one am not sure if I could look at a bowline and know it's finished properly, which would make it more difficult to check my partner if that was their knot of choice.
Logged
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4535
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:16 PM »

I guess it's me , but.. I only my partners setup  before a rappel.  Of course I don't climb ingyms or sporto
Logged

DLottmann

  • Guest
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2012, 10:08:13 PM »

Any comment about the eight follow through with the tail tucked back in? ...

I used to use this alot. Robb Hess's take on it was it makes it harder to inspect the proper knot (and it can be done wrong). I've seen many people do this "figure-9" or "Yosemite finish" incorrectly. If you pass around the load stand the wrong direction it is significantly weaker.

As for the defense of the bowline... "ease of untying" is a bit silly in my book... I've never met a figure 8 I couldn't untie... then again I guess if you are taking repeated whippers on a sport climb it might be an issue... and the fact that most your partners can't competently double check it for you leaves it all on you... which I guess is OK... but I like having someone look at my knot... EVERYTIME!

Bottom Line: Learning to tie a regular 8 without ending up with too much slack is definitely the best option, though other options "exist"...
Logged

ELM

  • NEClimbs Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 333
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2012, 08:31:47 AM »

...ditch the bowline.
   
Logged
Ed Matt
" I release my attention: because of you now I am in danger!!! " -Champ

M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1553
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 11:33:42 AM »

I am choosy with my climbing partners. They are all bright, experienced and able to tell if my knot is tied correctly  ::) , or if they aren't familiar with the double bowline they are conscientious enough to ask about it, which serves the purpose of making me triple check it..

Ward, if you want hard to untie, you should use the  figure 8, hangman's noose finish, topped off with sixteen square knots.  ;D

The figure 8 has some potential problems, if used without the proper backup knot according to what I have read. It can roll if you are clipped into the loop and are using the Yosemite finish.

You people are way too worried about knot style when consistent double checking of everything is the most important aspect of climbing safety. I learned that right off the bat from my mentors and that is emphasized when I do stuff by myself way out in the woods. You have to double check everything methodically so something simple doesn't leave you stranded on the side of the cliff with no help.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:22:17 PM by M_Sprague »
Logged
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

DLottmann

  • Guest
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2012, 02:26:09 PM »

...
The figure 8 has some potential problems, if used without the backup knot, with roll if you are clipped into the loop...

Can you rephrase this? I canít picture what you are saying...

And I agree, diligence is more important than knot choice... however the 8 is easier to double check for the vast majority of climbers...
Logged

M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1553
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2012, 03:17:53 PM »

Sorry, I meant to write the figure 8 with yosemite finish. I'll correct above. Supposedly it is even worse with a bowline if you didn't use the half fishermans stopper knot. So the stopper knot is indeed important even with the figure 8, since climbers use it in more ways than simply one directional load bearing.
Logged
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

strandman

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4535
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2012, 03:54:50 PM »

WHAT the hell is that ?
Logged

M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1553
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2012, 03:57:24 PM »

Petzle graphic, warning not to put your dick in the knot and then cross load the loop?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 05:17:23 PM by M_Sprague »
Logged
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

sneoh

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1926
Re: John Long decks at gym
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2012, 04:01:30 PM »

Hmm.  I have done what is shown in the diagram with a quickdraw at a bolt (when setting in the gym) and never had I have the sense that the knot was going to capsize or roll.  I have my Figure-8 chinched pretty tight whenever I use the Yosemite finish though.
However, if you add an extra wrap around the rope with the free-end before tucking it back into the knot, the chance of capsize is greatly reduced, according to the the AAI.  See pic below.  I believe Tradman had alluded to this before.  I do the extra wrap whenever I can (sometimes a really fat rope discourages this extra wrap).
Logged

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.268 seconds with 23 queries.