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[strandman]

All this talk has got me going' You don't need all this shit.. fucking triple length sling, cordalettes, 5  lockers  BULLSHIT

Get your fucking basic gear and learn to use it.

you'll be carrying so much shit, you can't move.  ;

30 biners
wires
6 cams
slings

Am I missing something ?

[JBrochu]

Am I missing something ?

Yes: Different people have different preferences for accomplishing the same thing.

But I will say your rack as described isn't all that different than mine. I carry a few more cams (10 I think on my standard rack) roughly the same number of biners plus the aforementioned triple sling (tied tubular webbing) and a couple of cords. The webbing and cordage is cheap.

Not sure what the problem is. Not enough talk about sport versus trad in the last 24 hours?

[sneoh]

You are missing Tricams, John!
Maybe a few more cams esp in the small, small sizes.  A nut tool.  One extra locker just in case.
Since I do not guide, I do not use a cordolette, let alone a PAS.  I used to have a 48" inch sling. Used it maybe twice.  Retired it and used it to hang my kid's swing from the tree when she was small.  2-footers are best IMO.
Optionally a prussik or ascender; might not be optional for some so I won't judge.

I have definitely seen the "you'll be carrying so much shit, you can't move." scenario.  What's worse is the leader getting the gear caught in a crack or behind a flake and a mini epic ensues.

Even with my relatively slim rack, Ajax used to make fun of me when we climbed together at The Gunks.  He recounted how Henry B would hand him gear on TWO biners when it was his (Ajax's) turn to lead.  Not sure if all the details were 100% accurate but I am sure the message was.

[sneoh]

Here's one for sport vs. trad on this topic - I know of several strong young climbers who would show up at Waimea crag at Rumney with one or 2 draws for gear.  They would spend the entire day climbing (and sending) only routes equipped with fixed draws; starting with warm-up on Techno.

They will have to break down and bring more gear after Mark and I strip half the fixed draws from Waimea.
Just kidding, for now

[JBrochu]

The difference between sport and trad climber in this type of situation is the sport climber shows up with two quickdraws and leaves with two quickdraws. The trad climber shows up with none and leaves with all of them.

[DWT]

Am I missing something ?

What, no ham sammiches?

[strandman]

I saw a kid the other getting ripped off in a local store... he spent almost $200 on shit and he didn't even own a rope.   prussiks, cordalettes, lockers.....

[frik]

Seems to me that gear stores use "beginner's rack" packages to sell crap nobody wants.

[strandman]

Selling this kid a nut tool.. he doesn't even know what a nut is. the store clerk didn't like me much

[DMan]

I saw a kid the other getting ripped off in a local store... he spent almost $200 on shit and he didn't even own a rope.   prussiks, cordalettes, lockers.....

Maybe his partners have plenty of ropes... I do urge new climbers not to go crazy buying gear their first year or two until they have climbed with mentors and know what they like... that being said prussiks, cordelettes, and lockers are pretty standard fare according to just about EVERY climbing book in print...

Now that I've started in this topic I'll throw in my whole $.02 on what I tell new climbers they should get, in what order.

1) Shoes... duh... rentals suck
2) Harness... same as above
3) Belay Device and 2 locking carabiners (one for belaying, one for anchoring in)- yes, I know you hate lockers
4) Helmet
5) Chalk Bag

That's all ya need for single pitch sport/trad following... Once you start following multi-pitch add;

6) 1 double-length sling- this can be used to extend rappel devices, tether in to stations while descending, create a friction hitch, etc.... a lot of versatility for $8 and 3 ounces... and WAY better investment than those silly PAS things...
7) Nut-tool- kinda on the fence on this, I don't give one to clients, but I don't place nuts so you can't get them out... if you climb with someone who falls a lot on nuts you probably want one of these...
Cordelette- another highly debated item... but versatile none the less... from setting up Top-Rope Anchors on monstrous Pine trees to cutting up for re-inforcing tat anchors on a descent, to rope ascension... it just makes life easier...

That's it, until you start leading... and that could be years, or never for some climbers.

Actually one last thing... and actual technical backpack... if you're climbing MP leave the pack with bells & whistles at home...

[strandman]

DMan- i agree with most of what you said 

But 4 lockers seemed a bit much to start..Like you mentioned , I hope he has harness, shoes etc

[sneoh]

About nut tool.  This year I found a "new" use for one; pulling the trigger on cams which have walked into the crack.  My fingers are kinda fat (swollen joints) so retrieving smallish cams can sometimes be an adventure w/o a nut tool.

[DMan]

But 4 lockers seemed a bit much to start..Like you mentioned , I hope he has harness, shoes etc

2 lockers to start... 2 more when he owns a rope and is building TR anchors...

@ Sneoh, ya, definitely when climbing deep 5.9 cracks!

[strandman]

About nut tool.  This year I found a "new" use for one; pulling the trigger on cams which have walked into the crack.  My fingers are kinda fat (swollen joints) so retrieving smallish cams can sometimes be an adventure w/o a nut tool.

Slip the wires through on a nut, loop both over the trigger ends. Then clip them together witha sling and pull !  the cams comes out everytime 

[sneoh]

Neat trick, John.  Clever!