Author Topic: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?  (Read 2048 times)

DLottmann

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2012, 10:17:19 PM »
Generally,  I practice self rescue scenarios and load tranfers once a month or so(in my garage).  A load transfer seems like quite a bit of work just to pay out five or ten feet of slack.

It is. TBH, load transfers are very rarely needed outside self-rescue. In the situation that occurred in the accident the OP referred to, the route was quite overhanging. It would simplify life greatly, and make sense on many different levels, to belay 2nd's, ESPECIALLY newer climbers like the 2nd's in the accident, utilizing a method that makes lowering easy, i.e. not a Reverso. A Munter Hitch or Gri Gri would be best, however, in hindsight, the REAL problem in the accident was the leader was belaying 2 seconds on difficult overhanging terrain simultaneously... THAT... was the leader's biggest error.

Thinking more on the subject I'll add a 3rd answer to the OP question... and perhaps the simplest answer.

1) Re-direct brake strand through high bomber piece in anchor

2) Add a prussik backup to brake strand (below re-direct)

3) Use a double length dyneema sling girth hitched through the little release hole on ATC Guide or directly through "rope" carabiner on Reverso, run through seperate high biner down to your foot (needed if load line is fully weighted to "pop" the jammed device...

4) Completely "pop" the device using the foot sling, and control the lower using the redirected brake strand backed up with prussik...

This works great for SHORT lowers and is 100% safe when done correctly. Simply release foot pressure to let device re-cam and start belaying again...

Offline Admin Al

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 06:45:34 AM »
I've done this a fair number of times and it works quite well. it's quick & easy, and if backed up it's 100% safe. sure I'd do something different if I was going to have to lower someone a full rope length on overhanging territory. that said, the ATC Guide is designed to do this. 

Thinking more on the subject I'll add a 3rd answer to the OP question... and perhaps the simplest answer.

1) Re-direct brake strand through high bomber piece in anchor

2) Add a prussik backup to brake strand (below re-direct)

3) Use a double length dyneema sling girth hitched through the little release hole on ATC Guide or directly through "rope" carabiner on Reverso, run through seperate high biner down to your foot (needed if load line is fully weighted to "pop" the jammed device...

4) Completely "pop" the device using the foot sling, and control the lower using the redirected brake strand backed up with prussik...

This works great for SHORT lowers and is 100% safe when done correctly. Simply release foot pressure to let device re-cam and start belaying again...
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Offline old_school

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 12:40:16 PM »
I've done this a fair number of times and it works quite well. it's quick & easy, and if backed up it's 100% safe. sure I'd do something different if I was going to have to lower someone a full rope length on overhanging territory. that said, the ATC Guide is designed to do this. 

Thinking more on the subject I'll add a 3rd answer to the OP question... and perhaps the simplest answer.

1) Re-direct brake strand through high bomber piece in anchor

2) Add a prussik backup to brake strand (below re-direct)

3) Use a double length dyneema sling girth hitched through the little release hole on ATC Guide or directly through "rope" carabiner on Reverso, run through seperate high biner down to your foot (needed if load line is fully weighted to "pop" the jammed device...

4) Completely "pop" the device using the foot sling, and control the lower using the redirected brake strand backed up with prussik...

This works great for SHORT lowers and is 100% safe when done correctly. Simply release foot pressure to let device re-cam and start belaying again...

Same here. Generally is all it takes for short lowers just to let the second get back down to a stance to regroup and reassess.
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes."

Offline meclimber

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 03:14:01 PM »
Nuts and Dman's first posts are great.  Derek, give a shout sometime.  Couple people have been hitting weekenights at p-way.  We moved to newmarket so I have a real drive now.  I was spoiled.
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DWT

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 03:17:51 PM »
Nice video Grammy!

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: How do you lower a second from a reverso in a controlled manner?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2012, 07:30:12 AM »
Sometimes it seems like simu climbing the 2nds is the big rage these days. I feel it is fine for slab climbs and grade 3 ice. I feel it is a real bad choice for hard rock and steep ice where someone may actually fall.   As for lowering someone from the new ATC Guide you don't even need to use a biner to unlock. just tweak it with your fingers and you can do a reasonably controled lower of a single climber. If you are simu belaying 2 climbers on overhanging terrain and need to lower just one of them you broke rule #1 KISS.  At this point you need to kick yourself in the nuts once and then do what the professional guides up thread suggested.