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Author Topic: avalanches  (Read 6249 times)

JBrochu

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2013, 12:55:55 PM »

Lookout gents, we got a serious throwdown in progress...

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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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Maxsuffering

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2013, 05:21:44 PM »

After six pages I think if I were traveling in avalanche terrain I'd rather be with DMan. Anybody else keeping score?
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lucky luke

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 10:23:36 AM »

Whatever man, not trying to insult you. But you think you could have magically led that group through that area in that condition and are positive you would have had a different result. That is highly unlikely, but you sound sure of it. That = arrogance + over-confidence.

"The debris was examined by a Snow Ranger, who estimated its size as 5-7 meters wide, 60 meters long, and 30-60cm deep"

Fifteen to twenty one feet wide, if you stay on the side with an anchor, and the three party close togheter with anchors... I really don't know what can happen. It is like a hike on the side a river. In the text, they said that the leader cross the path of the avalanche, at a weak point. He had snow to his hips....

With your phylosophy to lower the rescue fees to minimum, you overestimated the danger to discourage people, the people understand that the avalanche awardness is not exact....they think that they are safe and make mistake in very easy ground. That gave you argument...but it is your fault first. 

And you insult those who say that it is an overestimation, you can travel safely on many terrain. As here, the best was to avoid the avalanche path and make anchor.



 

 
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lucky luke

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 10:27:31 AM »



It will be fun to have the advice of climber like rick wilcox... it seems to me that it is a small avalanche who trigger many small avalanches above the first one. Many snow pocket in a row. Imagine where is the breaking point with a slab of 60 meter???
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triguy

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 10:56:52 AM »

Luke, high avalanche danger on mt Washington today!

Sounds like you will also have the rare opportunity of learning how to deal with exploding ice dams - truly a valuable lesson!

Why aren't you out learning how to avoid death?
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Ice has two purposes in life: climbing and watering down bad scotch!

lucky luke

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 02:18:52 PM »

Luke, high avalanche danger on mt Washington today!
Sounds like you will also have the rare opportunity of learning how to deal with exploding ice dams - truly a valuable lesson!

Why aren't you out learning how to avoid death?

I am learning...but what is the condition to have an ice dams? I always thought that it is when the weather come warmer and the water run under the snow and can not flow down because of an obstruction, call damn. Actually, the condition is going from rain to snow with a decrease of temperature from 30 to zero. I don't think that ice damn will be a problem.

In a weather like that, hypothermia is more a concern. if there are winds, it is worse. Route finding can be tricky as some ice field can be thin or on the rock.

In my opinion, there is no danger of avalanche as the weather is going to be colder and there is no snow actually. But it is some of the worse condition to be in the cliff because you can freeze and there is nothing beautifull on that kind of snow storm.

As snow is an isolator, I think that if you have a lot of snow, the condition will be worse in few days, with a blu bird sky, because of a lost of mechanical strenght in the snow.

after that, I will look at an avy post to have a different opinion.

Here is the true: "Mountain weather is subject to rapid changes and extreme conditions. Always be prepared to make your own assessment of travel and weather conditions." mt Washington weather center
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triguy

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »

So the Avy rangers that give the forecast on mt Washington are wrong with their assessment?

Yer gonna die!

All yours DMan.....

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Ice has two purposes in life: climbing and watering down bad scotch!

DLottmann

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »

Whatever man, not trying to insult you. But you think you could have magically led that group through that area in that condition and are positive you would have had a different result. That is highly unlikely, but you sound sure of it. That = arrogance + over-confidence.

"The debris was examined by a Snow Ranger, who estimated its size as 5-7 meters wide, 60 meters long, and 30-60cm deep"

Fifteen to twenty one feet wide, if you stay on the side with an anchor, and the three party close togheter with anchors... I really don't know what can happen. It is like a hike on the side a river. In the text, they said that the leader cross the path of the avalanche, at a weak point. He had snow to his hips....

....As here, the best was to avoid the avalanche path and make anchor.

Are you familiar with Central Gully? There are very few places to “make anchor” given the current (and past) conditions.

By “path” we mean Central Gully... that is the avalanche path, even if I small avalanche does not clear out the whole gully... regardless, that upper part has few if any places to create anchors and is almost always simul-climbed or soloed...
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DLottmann

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2013, 09:05:16 PM »



It will be fun to have the advice of climber like rick wilcox... it seems to me that it is a small avalanche who trigger many small avalanches above the first one. Many snow pocket in a row. Imagine where is the breaking point with a slab of 60 meter???

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but I know Rick. Next time you stop in IME why don’t you ask him.
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DLottmann

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #84 on: January 31, 2013, 09:08:03 PM »

So the Avy rangers that give the forecast on mt Washington are wrong with their assessment?

Yer gonna die!

All yours DMan.....

Lucky Luke (Champ), has already made it clear that snow rangers are not to be trusted and just don’t want to be bothered with going to rescue someone. The fact there is someone out there that openly thinks this is hard to fathom.

For reference, a great read today: http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2013/01/31/avalanche-advisory-for-thursday-1-31-2013/
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:10:02 PM by DMan »
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sneoh

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #85 on: January 31, 2013, 09:42:32 PM »


"Expect to reach Mach1 in the event of a fall ..." Cool.  I believe LL likes it fast.
This - "Always be prepared to make your own assessment of travel and weather conditions." is meant to cover their own asses given how quickly the situation can change in the mountains.  More formal than us saying Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV).
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

xcrag_corex

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2013, 12:42:11 AM »

" 2. Expect VERY slick and hard conditions later today and through the weekend.  Expect to reach Mach1 in the event of a fall, with self-arresting to be unlikely.  Forecasted high winds may blow you off balance.  Crampons, FREEDOM OF THE HILLS, ice ax and the experience to use them will be essential for safe travel. "
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-Jeremy Ballou

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xcrag_corex

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2013, 01:01:28 AM »

All sarcasm aside: Lucky Luke, here in New England we like to bust balls. That's just the way it is. But at the end of the day NOBODY wants to see anybody getting hurt or killed in our beloved White mountains.The professionals make educated hypothesis in order to guide people to travel safely and responsibly in the mountains. Here's an eye opener.... When I took the WFR course at SOLO (correct me if i'm wrong here pros) the instructor said rescue services send out 12 people in general on rescues. People need to carry a litter, and give care to the injured. FOCUS HERE: By chancing it and testing your skills, in the event of an emergency, YOU are pulling those people into a dangerous situation.

Those people have a family. those people have friends. those people have children. Remember that. Those people don't do this shit for fun. They are compassionate people who care for there fellow climbers. Climb responsibly.....
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-Jeremy Ballou

"know how to rock, ain't afraid to roll"

lucky luke

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2013, 03:12:27 AM »

FOCUS HERE: By chancing it and testing your skills, in the event of an emergency, YOU are pulling those people into a dangerous situation.

As Base said: "the last think I want to do is to call the rescue"

With a little bit more of practice, I will be at the level to deal with four thousand meter in the west. Maybe the Denali. For me, it is a training to higher mountain. Why do I train? To be able to be as safe as any one else climber can be.

"Always be prepared to make your own assessment of travel and weather conditions."  Means that you can adapt to any situation...not just when you, as a whole, decide that it is a good day or a bad day, but any time.

In an other post, a guy wanted to hicked the Mt Washington...Dman tod him to do so because he was in the navy. I asked him if he climbed in a tent in cold weather and to find a place when he can train to do it...like harvard cabin, before attempting the traverse. I did a kind of traverse before, climb damnation in solo, hike to the summit, went down by the south in direction of jackson, get out of the protect watershed, and have the most wonderfull night in my bivy.. and star all over the place. The next morning, I wake up, take my pack sack and hike down. As I turned a corner, I was struck by a wind of 80 miles per hours and more. I wasn't able to stay in my feet and have to crawl for three hours a trail of twenty minutes. Even if I call some one, nobody can reach me that day.

But I was prepared because I went in the mountain before to train on similar weather, althought less intense.

Between training in many places and reading a awardness board...I will say train because you will: ""Always be prepared to make your own assessment of travel and weather conditions."  And if you train a lot, the last think that you are going to do is to call the rescue because it means that you are wrong, still better than dead.
 

 

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JBrochu

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Re: avalanches
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2013, 09:04:00 AM »

In an other post, a guy wanted to hicked the Mt Washington...Dman tod him to do so because he was in the navy. I asked him if he climbed in a tent in cold weather and to find a place when he can train to do it...like harvard cabin, before attempting the traverse. 

I've got to admit, champ scored a point here...

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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck
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