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Author Topic: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.  (Read 5126 times)

JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2013, 08:36:54 PM »

Seems like they've done some soul searching.

Quote
We fully expected our slow progress would improve on the steeper ground and windswept slopes, that were only 100 feet above us when the avalanche occurred.

However that bit still seems like a fantasy to me.

For one thing, 100 feet above them was the top of the gully and the terrain was going to get less steep not more. Secondly, imo the terrain from the garden to the summit is comparable in difficulty to the terrain between the cabin and the start of the gully--except it would have been dark, much colder, and extremely windy not to mention how tired they would have been at that point.

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JakeDatc

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 11:56:04 AM »

UPDATE: Letter to the editor for Conway Daily Sun from the group leader, Andy:

http://ascentsofhonor.org/2013/02/06/a-letter-to-the-editor/

After reading that, I feel a little bit guilty for judging these guys. :(

Sounds to me like a predictable damage control press release in hopes of not getting (rightly) billed for the rescue.

with continued undertones that they weren't completely wrong.   "There are few adventures we would not manage differently the next time"

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om

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 01:37:58 PM »

For one thing, 100 feet above them was the top of the gully and the terrain was going to get less steep not more. Secondly, imo the terrain from the garden to the summit is comparable in difficulty to the terrain between the cabin and the start of the gully--except it would have been dark, much colder, and extremely windy not to mention how tired they would have been at that point.

Yea, that was the point that i was trying to make too. There is a long way between top of Central and the Summit. What I see as probable scenario would be: Once they were out of the steep they would've stopped, un-roped, sat down to eat, etc (you have to, no-one can keep going for 12 hours without). Now it's 7pm and they are starting up for the summit. Wind is 50mi/h, everyone is very tired and cold...They walk for another 2 hours and can't move efficiently anymore. Its 10pm before they realize they are in real trouble... 12 people, up high and exposed, still hours from shelter. Could be worse than one broken ankle. Would've been definitely more complicated for the rescue team.

As far as paying for the rescue - i would not send them a bill. In my book they were not reckless. 
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JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 01:46:10 PM »

Yes, I'm starting to believe the policy needs to be either everybody that requires rescue needs to pay, or nobody needs to pay. It's way too subjective otherwise.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

DLottmann

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 09:33:14 PM »

with continued undertones that they weren't completely wrong.   "There are few adventures we would not manage differently the next time"

I think you’re interpreting that quote wrong... it is poorly worded, but I think you are reading;

“We would not do it differently next time”

when what they are saying is:

“We would do this differently next time”

It’s just a poorly worded statement as it is easily mis-read...
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JakeDatc

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2013, 11:43:17 PM »

Ah..  yea that should have been stated better.. i get it.    too much hype on the adventure of it all. 
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lucky luke

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2013, 01:57:24 PM »

Quote
. High up in the gully, we would have been much better to bring the whole group up high, anchor in solidly and then proceed to address the exit of the gully (with a new aspect, angle, and potential snow loading)

Exactly what I said in my analysis!

And the reason why I blame the analysis of the rescue.

You are not for the climber, you promote hiking in lion head
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DLottmann

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2013, 08:13:30 PM »

Never turn back Luke... never...

The analysis was written and edited by quite a few very skilled accomplished climbers, with INTIMATE knowledge of the terrain... so “you are not for the climber, you promote hiking lion head” borders on the highest level of ignorance. I’m sure your analysis, deduced from looking at Central from Route 16 and “not seeing 2-3 feet of snow there” was much more accurate...

Other less “provable” considerations are there are no “solid anchors” in that section of Central, and given the location of the slab it was probably impossible to avoid it and still top out, especially with 12 people...

but never turn back Luke... never...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 08:15:49 PM by DMan »
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JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2013, 10:40:44 PM »

You are not for the climber, you promote hiking in lion head

Quote
With the benefit of hindsight, we do not think climbing Central Gully would have been a poor choice for every group on this day. Given the weather conditions and increasing avalanche hazard, an early-rising, fast-moving team of climbers comfortable with the terrain could have climbed through the gully before instabilities developed very far. If snow stability during the climb had deteriorated too much, they could have downclimbed, rappelled, or traversed out of the gully into the rocks on the right before they developed to the point where they might naturally release.

Their own analysis finds that in their opinion there are groups of climbers that could have safely tackled Central on that day, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they're somehow anti-climbing.

I used to climb up in the Ravine a lot, and all the people I met that worked up there went out of the way to provide information while letting climbers make their own decisions. Other than enforcing camping regulations around the cabin, I never once heard them tell somebody not to do something.
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Admin Al

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2013, 09:24:27 AM »

...I never once heard them tell somebody not to do something.

me neither!
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DLottmann

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2013, 06:51:05 PM »

Well said JBrochu
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lucky luke

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2013, 09:23:07 PM »

I never once heard them tell somebody not to do something.

Here what they wrote: "he stated that this was the Snow Ranger “that thought we were idiots for climbing Central” that day."

you don't here it, you read it!!!

Instead of talking that person are idiot, maybe it is more usefull to talk about safety. The leader agree that hemade mistake. Maybe you make also a mistake in overestimating the danger and criticize those who analyse the problem and ask for more training before going to the cliff!!!!
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JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2013, 10:40:59 PM »

Yeah it's pretty clear the Ranger provided information that strongly suggested it might not be a good idea to attempt Central that day for that particular group. Funny how that all worked out.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2013, 02:02:54 PM »

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M_Sprague

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Re: Avalanche in either Tucks or Huntington on Thursday.
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2013, 10:12:48 PM »

If people would just carry their nitro and snow mortars with them, like they are supposed to, they wouldn't have these problems.
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