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[darwined]

Maybe I'm an old fart too as I hate the crowds with the festivals.  But he wasn't dogging ice fest, just making a joking comment about not liking those events.  As much as people post about these things being so awesome, there is a group of us that don't find them appealing.  He didn't say it sucked and its for losers and resort to name calling.  I find it refreshing to see others that don't get jazzed about a huge population coming in.  As much as it brings in business, it also destroys climbs for a while, if not for the season.  Just as much you think we're old farts (still in my 20's), we could say you must be egotistic and get validation from being seen at events.  As much as you see a positive in these, we see negatives.

I don't begrudge the opinion that the Icefests suck and it's cool to avoid them.  The rub was that the thread got steered in that direction two or three posts in.  "Old Fart" wasn't cool.  Sorry Tradman.  I can see I'm on the wrong side of this one, but whatever.  Can't win 'em all.

[DMan]

Thanks for making my point for me.

Lots of people work hard pulling these festivals off and lots of climbers enjoy them.  You don't enjoy them(which is cool if it's your thing), so you avoid them.  Why not just avoid the "Icefest thread" too?  Just saying.

It's all opinions man, but asking someone to avoid the thread after you asked what people thought of Ice Fest has incited quite a bit of negativity that while under the surface would have probably remained unsaid... just sayin...

Nothing wrong with people speaking out against it if that's their thing...

Since we're now debating the merits of Ice Fest, and festivals like it, I want to add my opinion to the mix...

It's about community in my opinion... celebrating the lifestyle of climbing... I LOVE seeing so many ice climbers get together and share stories, inspiration, first swings, future plans, check out new gear, show off old gear, make new friends, find new partners, win swag, drink free beer, etc, etc, etc...

Ice climbing is still a pretty exclusive sport. There is almost always ice to climb even during the Fest if you just stay away from the classics. It's only 3 days out of a 120 ice climbing season...

I don't know one person who "guides" just to make money. It is not a lucrative business. We guide because we love sharing the sport with people... pretty sure if I didn't guide I would be a teacher elsewhere, but I love teaching outside.

Actually I am haveing some doubts and concerns about how commercial guide companies make money on our public lands in a way that drasticly impacts the outdoor experience for the folks who just want to enjoy the cliffs without trying to make money.

I respect your opinion here, but I think the benefits of commercial guiding and the overall impact they have on the climbing community FAR outweigh the negatives. "Drastically impacts the outdoor experience"? I would argue the dozens of ill-prepared under equipped "folks" scratching their way up Lion's Head every weekend impact the experience of actual climbers more than guide services. Most guides (not all), but most I know will go out of the way to avoid impacting recreational climbers, and often extend help when needed, along with almost all local guides volunteering on Mountain Rescue Service.

I know I'm generalizing a lot here, and my opinions are biased since I am a guide, but I think we might be trying to find more controversy here than there needs to be...

[JBrochu]

Personally I'm not opposed to all guiding. My first few days climbing were with a guide and I still do a self-rescue course every couple of years. Also like you mentioned, the local guides contribute a lot with the rescue service and other community things. It's just for my sensibilities Ice Fest is a little over the top. But I realize a lot of other people seem to love these things. 

[tradmanclimbz]

 I do not see how you could possibly say that the bennifits of gyms and schools bringing thousands of new climbers into the sport anually outweigh the negative impact of all those new climbers.
I am sure most of the guides are in it for more than the money but the bottom line is  that in order to keep a gym and a climbing school above water you have to generate revenue. the only way to generate revenue is to get new customers. getting new customers creates crowds that create erosion and parking problems that create access issues as well as seriously impact the outdoor experience  of everyone.  Much of this is accomplished by running a PRIVATE buisness on our public land. 
 I had no problem finding climbers to hang out with around a campfire back in the days before climbing gyms.  Often these days you are not even allowed to have a campfire or even camp @ the climbing areas.

[MT]

I get it.  Why jack the thread just to be an old fart? 
[/quote]

Because that's what old farts do. Paragraph 6, sub-section 3 of the Old Fart Climber's Handbook: "HIJACK THREADS ON CLIMBING WEBSITES whenever possible and rant (aka "spray") about the good ol' days. Take every opportunity to stir the pot. Nothing like watchin' the youngins get their knickers in a knot"           

[Admin Al]

just FWIW all the guide services are supposed to pay an annual fee to use the PUBLIC lands. in the case of IME and (I assume) EMS it's not an insignificant amount either...

[slink]

OLD FART!! Not yet but working on it.Tradman is a youngster. Thread hijack I concur with D MAN an opinion was asked and a response was given.

[Admin Al]

geez guys... ask a simple question around here & it gets twisted all around... let's try again:

If you were up here in North Conway climbing this weekend and were a part of the 2013 Ice Fest, what did you think?

[tradmanclimbz]

The old style guide who takes out one or two clients  climbing was minimal impact and a nice complement to the climbing experience. The modern era of large schools supported by multiple gyms running adventure camps and agressivly marketing new clients has a massive negative impact on the outdoor climbing experience.  Progress.. just like the hotel and golf course @ Whitehorse

[mopowers]

Ya, nice try Al.

It's about community in my opinion... celebrating the lifestyle of climbing... I LOVE seeing so many ice climbers get together and share stories, inspiration, first swings, future plans, check out new gear, show off old gear, make new friends, find new partners, win swag, drink free beer, etc, etc, etc...

Well said.

You wont ever catch me at an ice fest or even Rumney on a weekend. I prefer to climb away from  the crowds. That being said the Ice Fest looks like a great time for those involved and i completely support the celebration. I bet only a small percentage of people that hire a guide or take a class continue to peruse climbing. Besides, without posers buying gear i doubt the gear manufactures would have enough revenue to develop and innovate all the great gear we have.

I climbed at Willoughby on Sunday. It was very crowded, every available line had a party on it. Figured it was Ice Fest overflow. I ran into a couple fellow NEclimbers escaping the Fest and had a great chat session. Fun day dodging ice from every direction. Makes me think we should put on our own NEClimbs festival.

Ya... i too consider Tradman an old fart.

[DMan]

Good article about event: http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/95054-super-weekend-for-ice-climbers

[Woody48]

I had a great time at Ice Fest.  I met some new guys to climb with as well. The sideshows were fun as well.